51 replies to this topic

[paul1404]

lavenderthistle, on 08 December 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

I must sheepishly admit I have used the red button once.

I thought for a while before I did it. I felt the post deserved to have a negative flag and I felt that the moment I read it. When the post was written, and I read it, I felt the wind go out of my sail and I felt I'd been slapped in the face. I addressed those feelings privately at the time the post was originally made in a rather nice email. That poster never bothered to respond to me. The post was not one made by our dear friend ATG either. His were simply argumentative opinion pieces and deserved neither a positive nor a negative in my mind. The post I red buttoned I felt to be overly discouraging and undermining to many people. When someone can feel that they are unwelcome because they aren't injured enough, or that their progress is nothing because a person has made little progress...that's injurious to new people or to people struggling for hope.

When I made my comment about "I'd much rather people call me names or call me ignorant then post something hurtful" That was the specific post I was referring to. When I came here as a new injury, had I seen a post attempting to make me feel guilty about what I had...I would have VERY unwelcome and left.

For that reason alone I feel the red button has merits. I don't think a post like the one I'm referring to should ever be reported...there was no cussing, name calling etc...it was simply VERY undermining and devaluing to many of our members. Thus the red button. People can see that there are others who don't agree with it without the integrity of the tread being changed. Far too many times a wonderful thread will be derailed by name calling, insult flinging and posturing...the original message is lost. I would hope that the red button would give someone a way to say "no I don't agree with what you said" Before the original poster knows it there is a full fledged argument going on around them for no reason other than an ill advised post.

Sorry this was a bit wordy...but that's my reason for liking the red button...I can happily survive if there are no buttons, one button or 10.....

Stop pressing buttons and get the fish on.

Edited by paul1404, 08 December 2011 - 09:06 PM.

[lavenderthistle]

Absolutely Paul!! We are in fact having trite Tuna Casserole tonight. I shall save you a plate. We have an old car plate from my son's toddler years...it is NOT a mazda however

[greybeard]

bongorum, on 08 December 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

I hope he will provide us some facility that enables us to discover who our negative reppers are, otherwise we'll be like a man being punched in the dark who is entirely ignorant as to the identity of his assailant.

Just click on the number count beside the buttons. A pop-up opens with a list of who did what.

..............And no, my vote is still NO.

[bongorum]

greybeard, on 08 December 2011 - 09:57 PM, said:

bongorum, on 08 December 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

I hope he will provide us some facility that enables us to discover who our negative reppers are, otherwise we'll be like a man being punched in the dark who is entirely ignorant as to the identity of his assailant.

Just click on the number count beside the buttons. A pop-up opens with a list of who did what.

..............And no, my vote is still NO.

Ahhhhh! Thank you.

[edlee]

I can't find my post in favor of the RED,, so it must be in another thread. But I am heartened to see that the yeses have started to catch up to the noes. Do not those of you posting see the significance of this? Obviously, there are those who do not choose to post,, fo their own personal reasons,, but who feel the need to express their pleasure,, or lack thereof,, with a certain post, by an expedient and nonconfrontational manner. The red button allows this,, and since yopu can see who it is that didn't like it,, you can ask them personally, through a PM, if you must know the reason.

If you are , indeed,, concerned with those with sensitive feelings,, you would understand and approve of giving them a way to convey their feelings without forcing them into a verbal competition they may br unable or unwilling to enter. One must keep in mind, that tho we share this site with a huge number of members,, the vast majority do not post,, and possibly, do not come often enough to be able to argue a point. After all,, it does seem futile to argue a point made a week ( and 20 posts) earlier. What better way than to rep a particular post and have that indication of your feelings remain with that post for all to see,, whenever they happen to see it. A day from now, or a year.
ed

[Vanessamaee]

I agree and like the idea that both should be removed. We already "abuse" the vote up button (I guess you can say abuse?) by voting up dumb remarks and posts that make us laugh more than posts that are actually informative and on topic. I feel that the red button could go the same way. Rep someone down becuase you dont like them etc.

Getting rid of both buttons would resolve any conflict (future and present).

Maybe have a LOL button if we must have one? (:

[brockit79]

paul1404, on 08 December 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

lavenderthistle, on 08 December 2011 - 08:57 PM, said:

I must sheepishly admit I have used the red button once.

I thought for a while before I did it. I felt the post deserved to have a negative flag and I felt that the moment I read it. When the post was written, and I read it, I felt the wind go out of my sail and I felt I'd been slapped in the face. I addressed those feelings privately at the time the post was originally made in a rather nice email. That poster never bothered to respond to me. The post was not one made by our dear friend ATG either. His were simply argumentative opinion pieces and deserved neither a positive nor a negative in my mind. The post I red buttoned I felt to be overly discouraging and undermining to many people. When someone can feel that they are unwelcome because they aren't injured enough, or that their progress is nothing because a person has made little progress...that's injurious to new people or to people struggling for hope.

When I made my comment about "I'd much rather people call me names or call me ignorant then post something hurtful" That was the specific post I was referring to. When I came here as a new injury, had I seen a post attempting to make me feel guilty about what I had...I would have VERY unwelcome and left.

For that reason alone I feel the red button has merits. I don't think a post like the one I'm referring to should ever be reported...there was no cussing, name calling etc...it was simply VERY undermining and devaluing to many of our members. Thus the red button. People can see that there are others who don't agree with it without the integrity of the tread being changed. Far too many times a wonderful thread will be derailed by name calling, insult flinging and posturing...the original message is lost. I would hope that the red button would give someone a way to say "no I don't agree with what you said" Before the original poster knows it there is a full fledged argument going on around them for no reason other than an ill advised post.

Sorry this was a bit wordy...but that's my reason for liking the red button...I can happily survive if there are no buttons, one button or 10.....

Stop pressing buttons and get the fish on.

sorry i just wanted to test the water but now I'm backtracking! I can't seem to rep you back up either :/

[lavenderthistle]

edlee, on 08 December 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

I can't find my post in favor of the RED,, so it must be in another thread. But I am heartened to see that the yeses have started to catch up to the noes. Do not those of you posting see the significance of this? Obviously, there are those who do not choose to post,, fo their own personal reasons,, but who feel the need to express their pleasure,, or lack thereof,, with a certain post, by an expedient and nonconfrontational manner. The red button allows this,, and since yopu can see who it is that didn't like it,, you can ask them personally, through a PM, if you must know the reason.

If you are , indeed,, concerned with those with sensitive feelings,, you would understand and approve of giving them a way to convey their feelings without forcing them into a verbal competition they may br unable or unwilling to enter. One must keep in mind, that tho we share this site with a huge number of members,, the vast majority do not post,, and possibly, do not come often enough to be able to argue a point. After all,, it does seem futile to argue a point made a week ( and 20 posts) earlier. What better way than to rep a particular post and have that indication of your feelings remain with that post for all to see,, whenever they happen to see it. A day from now, or a year.
ed

Here you go ed! You're post #25
http://www.apparelyz...__1#entry261688

Quote

sorry i just wanted to test the water but now I'm backtracking! I can't seem to rep you back up either :/

I'll negate it...gotta keep fish folk friendly

[MTB John]

Bongorum,

To know who has rep'ed you just click on the little number. A box pops up with a list of names..

[pistol_pete]

Seems we need some deep wisdom on this one. When I'm faced with a hefty problem I usually drop a line to my old mate D.Lama.
I call it a Dalai Lama Dilemna.

This is the text he sent back.

"Dear Pistol
To reach enlightenment we must have balance or the Chi will not flow.
Good and Evil, Up and Down, Black and White, Hot and Cold.
For one to exist there must be the other.
To remove one is to remove all.
This is universal.

p.s I watched that Cheech and Chong movie you told me about, ha ha bloody hilarious"

D.


woops ignore that last bit.

Hmm, wise words from the man himself.
something to think about eh?

Edited by pistol_pete, 09 December 2011 - 03:34 AM.

[lavenderthistle]

Wow!! How can one possibly argue with big D??

We must have proper chi (my cat takes wei qi) it balances the little dear out...I digress

When the Cheech and Chong vid is available could we do a group movie night??

Provided our chi is good and our fengs have been shui'd

[jenny407]

edlee, on 08 December 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

The red button allows this,, and since yopu can see who it is that didn't like it,, you can ask them personally, through a PM, if you must know the reason.

(...)
ed

... which is what I did, on two occasions. I do think the people were a little surprised but I got my answers.

pistol and lav: You are so funny - and so very wise. Such wisdom in two so young ...

Should I - as a fervent qi gong and yoga adherent - now favour the red button? No, no and no .... (stubbornness is a virtue, too!)

Yet the poll shows perfect equilibrium now -- OOOMMMMMMMM.

Edited by jenny407, 09 December 2011 - 10:48 AM.

[bongorum]

MTB John, on 09 December 2011 - 02:23 AM, said:

Bongorum,

To know who has rep'ed you just click on the little number. A box pops up with a list of names..

Thank you, MTB; you live and you learn.

[bongorum]

edlee, on 08 December 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

I can't find my post in favor of the RED,, so it must be in another thread. But I am heartened to see that the yeses have started to catch up to the noes. Do not those of you posting see the significance of this? Obviously, there are those who do not choose to post,, fo their own personal reasons,, but who feel the need to express their pleasure,, or lack thereof,, with a certain post, by an expedient and nonconfrontational manner. The red button allows this,, and since yopu can see who it is that didn't like it,, you can ask them personally, through a PM, if you must know the reason.

If you are , indeed,, concerned with those with sensitive feelings,, you would understand and approve of giving them a way to convey their feelings without forcing them into a verbal competition they may br unable or unwilling to enter. One must keep in mind, that tho we share this site with a huge number of members,, the vast majority do not post,, and possibly, do not come often enough to be able to argue a point. After all,, it does seem futile to argue a point made a week ( and 20 posts) earlier. What better way than to rep a particular post and have that indication of your feelings remain with that post for all to see,, whenever they happen to see it. A day from now, or a year.
ed

I understand what you’re saying ed, but I think confrontation, as its transpires here, is a good thing and a means of us growing as a community. Contained in those spontaneous outbursts of dissent, counter-assertions and protestations, I believe, are the seeds of our evolution and the means of us lifting ourselves to that higher stage. Besides, I for one love the angry debate here, I can think of nothing more invigorating than intelligent disagreement, it helps me learn, tests my knowledge of things and works towards pruning my mind of its false values and beliefs. The red button cannot do any of that. And in the end I expect it will deter the more complacent among us, the ‘apathetic’ posters, from posting, and why should they, when the red button is sitting there ready and willing to vocalize for them their displeasure without them having to endure the trouble of giving a motive.

Edited by bongorum, 09 December 2011 - 09:58 PM.

[edlee]

Exactly by point, B,, but I don't see it as a bad thing. Generally,, the more complacent don't make for a lively discussion, anyway. So their postal abstinence actually keeps the debates moving more briskly. I often take a day or two away from my computor,,, and a number of long, inane, and often irrelevant posts between the more meaty ones, is apt to put off those who might really contribute, simply by the tedium.

Better, I say,, to let those who will,, illustrate their displeasure quickly. Tho ,, the only repping of either variety, that I've done here,, was to Bev"s posts,,, and then it was for the rise I could get out of her for the up reps,, and the pleasure it gave her for the down ones.

If you choose to speak,,, or type,, in public,, you must understand that there will be those who won't agree with you no matter how right you are ( or think you are). Even the most patriotic speech will have some who don't agree with a lot of what is said,, but nobody ever boos when the guy is standing in front of the flag,,, so a silent dissent might well be a way to let the pompous know they were recognized as such,, without iccurring the wrath of the crowd.

Why can't big red be seen as simply a way of asking a poster to reconsider his words, or better make his point? For those of us less skilled at the keyboard,, such a shortcut could be very useful.

ed

[pistol_pete]

edlee, on 09 December 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

I often take a day or two away from my computor,,, and a number of long, inane, and often irrelevant posts between the more meaty ones, is apt to put off those who might really contribute, simply by the tedium.



ed

Oh Dear, If inane and irrelevant posts attracted negative repping I'm afraid my reputation would be akin to some painted trollop on a street corner.

[lavenderthistle]

Gosh Pete there's no need to insult me like that!! It makes me sound....well cheap. I find my posts to be fairly inane.....but almost never irrelevant. Wait. What was the question?

Oh yes, I think all fish in Mazda's should have red buttons.

(This is why Lav takes herbals instead of prescriptions...just look how silly she is)

I'll be on the corner now.

[bongorum]

It almost sounds as if you’re promoting an elitist policy of non-inclusion, ed, as well as being a bit dismissive or those whose posts aren’t particularly profound, instructive or edifying. Perhaps I understand you wrong, because that wouldn’t be the ed I have come to know through our exchanges, the ed whose opinions I have found remarkable for the high principles and sympathetic view of humanity they’ve unfailingly revealed. But as I’ve said, I’m sure it is I who misapprehend your meaning.

As to your other point, you’re right, of course. Even our most noble actions will draw their detractors. But further on you seem to presuppose that anyone who gets red-buttoned must be pompous, and therefore deserving of such a penalty. Why is it impossible to believe that the one who avails themselves of the button might not be labouring under a misconception or merely acting on a vindictive impulse? Perhaps they erroneously believe that the poster has done them some injustice, occassioned them some slight long past but still freshly remembered, and are simply taking their pound of flesh the only way they know how. What I’m trying to say ed, is that owing to secret grudges the button can lead to a lot of unjust persecution, and what redress is to be had if the red-buttoner refuses to give their reason for decrying a particular post, as is manifestly their prerogative? I suppose that that is the major problem I have with the red button, it simply accords a measure of power without demanding a corresponding measure of accountability.

Edited by bongorum, 11 December 2011 - 01:15 AM.

[pistol_pete]

Aaww Geez, and its such an unassuming looking little red button
Look what you've started Greybeard.

Thanks for bringing back the little red button Simon, this is the most fun I've had in a long time.

What if the button wasn't red, maybe it could be a nice unconfronting puce or mauve.

Lav, I didn't mean to insult you, I've heard of YOUR reputation and its always been good.

Fish? Mazdas? Yes, Uum, whats the name of those...ahhh..herbals you got there?

[lavenderthistle]

Lol..Pete I was on meds and hoping for a new profession! I guess I'll leave the painted trollop job for someone else then. I even dug out my fishnets! Darn it

[A trophy guy]

No. I think it is a bad idea. I think we all do a perfectly fine job of expressing our negative opinions of posts without such a detached, passive-aggressive method available at our fingertips. It only discourages discussion and interaction; and this seems to be counter to what this board is all about. If you disagree with something, the least you could do is explain yourself.

[Apparelyzed]

This poll has now closed.

Good discussion, and after reading the reasons for and against, and looking at the poll, only the positive reputation button will be displayed on members posts.

Regards

Simon.