109 replies to this topic

[Priority Seatin]

I'm working on a blog entry for one of my blogs about something that seems to happen a lot to me (and some others I know) but doesn't seem to be talked about too often.

Okay. Let's see if I can explain this well...

Have you ever had a time when someone didn't know how to treat someone with a disability, and when they commit a major faux-pas and you call them on it, they get REALLY offended and defensive and refuse to hear your explanation about why it was a faux-pas (even when you insist that you're aware that it was unintentional)?

or...

Have you ever had a time when you were consulted about wheelchair accessibility for a place (such as a company) and when you point out some problem spots, they dismiss your recommendations, saying "Nah, it's fine," making you wonder why you were even there?

or...

Have you ever had a time when someone who would normally be willing to learn about disability issues would SHUT YOU OUT when they make a mistake and you try to explain it to them?

What do you think provokes these types of reactions?

Edited by Priority Seatin, 18 December 2011 - 11:50 PM.

[greybeard]

Ignorance.

[Priority Seatin]

Ignorance.

That's the thing though. Some of the people who have this reaction are not ignorant people. They are genuinely intelligent people who would normally be willing to listen but when they make a mistake, they are suddenly offended and defensive.

I find it quite bizarre and am struggling to find a decent explanation for it.

[A trophy guy]

"Have you ever had a time when someone didn't know how to treat someone with a disability, and when they commit a major faux-pas and you call them on it, they get REALLY offended and defensive and refuse to hear your explanation about why it was a faux-pas (even when you insist that you're aware that it was unintentional)?"

-I am very familiar with this tendency. I think it has to do with people simply being embarrassed and uncomfortable at being called out for anything; regardless of the validity or sincerity behind it. I have a particularly apt story pertaining to this topic; I'll tell it when i have a bit more time. I'm sure it will get opinions flowing. ;)

[Califanna]

Ignorance.

That's the thing though. Some of the people who have this reaction are not ignorant people. They are genuinely intelligent people who would normally be willing to listen but when they make a mistake, they are suddenly offended and defensive.

I find it quite bizarre and am struggling to find a decent explanation for it.

It comes down to the able bodied community feeling as if they are smarter or more able to determine what is good or bad for the disabled community. This is why it is so important for the disabled community in this country to become united and vocal about what their needs are and what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Most times we just allow the abled bodied community to determine what we can and can't live with. Instead of being more united as a group and expressing ourselves.

So can you blame these "genuinely intelligent people" to interpret your educating as more of an attack on what they believe is the way we should be treated.

[wheeliebear75]

MANY people be they AB or disabled do NOT like hearing "You're wrong." or even a "You're only partially correct."....boy do they come UNGLUED!

My Mother as a trained OT & so she has done some consulting work & been on a # of architectural committees around San Diego; Mom has come home sooo many times cussing out this group or that group...."WHY bother calling me or anyone else in to tell them what they've done wrong or right when they just dismiss EVERYTHING I say needs changed or modified anyway?!?!?". She constantly complained about (can't name names or companies/organizations) a FEW "qualified persons" have gotten LOTS of consulting jobs....problem is they got them by being "YES-MEN"....(YES you've done a fine job.....people in wider chairs wont fit but 75% will so it's OK) (YES.....yes the people in the disabled section can't see the stage/podium because they're blocked by posts but that's OK they don't need to see the stage.....getting out of the house is enough for them.). Which of course then those of us living in San Diego area have to FIGHT to get them to change !

I have met some people who although they had a fairly high IQ & were "educated" (had a degree of some sort) but yet were some of the DUMBEST PEOPLE I've ever met. There are some who because "I studied medicine & became a ______." they think they already learned it all so if THEIR professor didn't teach it to them than it is worth knowing. Now on the other hand I have met people who did not even have a high-school diploma but because they were ALWAYS WILLING TO LEARN learned more about LIFE & about interpersonal communication than some people who have a DEGREE.

Almost all of my friends if they happened to come across someone else who uses a wheelchair, they'd be among the 1st to stop & ask "Can I help you with anything?". They would also be among those who would actually take an extra minute to find out what you NEED & how they should go about assisting you than to just decide FOR YOU what they THINK YOU NEED & "Nike your ass("just do it")". A bunch of mechanics & machinists & delivery drivers, retail workers & child care providers (preschool/daycare).....but they're hard working & good hearted people who although on one hand no they don't have "a college degree" on the other hand they're not stuck up arrogant snobs.

[davjed]

I think GB is on the right track, ignorance coupled with some others like lack of compassion, lack of exposure to the sight of someone different. And being from a rural setting is even worse. Fifty years ago was hell being in a wheel chair compared to today. No cut curbs, no wide doors, fewer elevators, no ADA guidelines, no handicapped parking places, no automatic doors, and you were really considered mentally disabled as you were physically. I remember one incident where I dearly wanted to shoot one "ignorant old bitch" for calling me "one of them helpless fellers" to my face. You can tell it still scrapes my bottom. Outside of beating the living shit out of someone like that there is no satisfaction.......thankfully I have mellowed a tad since then.

[StillFingers]

"Have you ever had a time when someone didn't know how to treat someone with a disability, and when they commit a major faux-pas and you call them on it, they get REALLY offended and defensive and refuse to hear your explanation about why it was a faux-pas (even when you insist that you're aware that it was unintentional)?"

-I am very familiar with this tendency. I think it has to do with people simply being embarrassed and uncomfortable at being called out for anything; regardless of the validity or sincerity behind it. I have a particularly apt story pertaining to this topic; I'll tell it when i have a bit more time. I'm sure it will get opinions flowing. ;)

IMHO...you nailed this one ATG! As did GB, ignorance! There's stubbornness, ego and arrogance...uninformed, and down right argumentative as well.

[kathy.k]

Ingorance comes to mind also. And here's an example of ignorance....my daughter attends middle school here in Alabama. My husband and I do our best to support her education any way we can. Recently there was an assembly in the gym and my daughter really wanted us to attend. So here we go....we are used to the stares from the other kids and the whispering but we are going to support our daughter. There is one ONE handicapped parking space at the school. As we pull up in our wheelchair van a lady pulls into the spot, no handi permit no tag and parks. I get out and nicely explain to her that I need that spot due to my husband being in a wheelchair....she calmly looks at me and tells me to kiss her hiney she got there first.....so then I remind her that if she doesn't move I will call the police and they can tow and ticket her car. She calls me a bitch but does move. Ok...we are going into the school now walking to the gym. Guess what.....my husbands wheelchair does not fit into the gym.....we ask if there is another entrance that we can get into and the Prinicple says no and asks "well can your husband just walk inside a few feet".....they can get him a chair right inside the door........seriously????? We don't attend in school functions now and thank God our daughter plays soccer an outside sport.

[Edinburgh Colin]

. I remember one incident where I dearly wanted to shoot one "ignorant old bitch" for calling me "one of them helpless fellers" to my face. You can tell it still scrapes my bottom. Outside of beating the living shit out of someone like that there is no satisfaction.......thankfully I have mellowed a tad since then.

Love it!
Still think the beating would have provided a fairly immense amount of satisfaction though!!
A verbal shreading, especially in public can feel pretty good as well.
EC

[A trophy guy]

I want to share a recent story which I think perfectly captures the attitude, the mindset, that a large percentage of people have (some consciously, some unconsciously) towards those with disabilities; in particular those who use wheelchairs. The fitness center where I train has a jacuzzi in the mens locker room which I enjoy after working out, time permitting. This particular day, as I was approaching the jacuzzi to get in I notice one other bather in the tub. It' a middle aged man and he is intently staring at me.

This, in and of itself, is not unusual. I am used to being stared at. He is watching my every move, and doing it in such a way as to make me avoid eye contact with him at all costs. From experience, I knew that the second I made eye contact, the offers of "Hey, you need me to help ya there?" would be coming. Anyway I got myself out of my chair and into the jacuzzi, where I could FEEL this guy's eyes still on me. Finally, I could take it no more (in reality it was probably only 30sec) and glanced over his way. He was looking at me with a silly grin, and he said, "Well, I see you did that ALL BY YOURSELF there!" "Way to go!" And he called me "Champ" and gave me a massive thumbs ups!

At first I just brushed it off and ignored him. But I was really exhausted that day, I just wanted to relax in the jacuzzi and this shit just got under my skin (which I think it had justifiable reason to). So I turned to him, and without any rancor or anger told him that speaking to me in such a way was actually offensive to me. Before I could go any further, he indignantly jerked back and rolled his eyes and basically shut down any further communication.

But I felt that this exchange was not the exchange of fellow adults, not the interaction of societal peers. Sure, he wasn't intending to offend me, he just saw me in a completely different respect. And THAT is at the heart of much of the discrimination experienced by the disabled, the able-bodied simply do not regard those who suffer severe disabilities, such as those who use wheelchairs, as equal citizens worthy of the same respect and equality. The worst part about this story I've told isn't anything particular to the story itself; it's how common such stories are.

[willowt]

We humans are proud, that's all it is and I don't think it's any different when it plays out in other situations as well. As we all continue to learn, we still want to think 'we know' and when we are faced with the fact that we don't, pride sets in. Most people want to avoid the fact that they 'don't know' or are 'ignorant' and do so by becoming angry creating a false sense of protection.

Just my 2 cents -

Ignorance.

That's the thing though. Some of the people who have this reaction are not ignorant people. They are genuinely intelligent people who would normally be willing to listen but when they make a mistake, they are suddenly offended and defensive.

I find it quite bizarre and am struggling to find a decent explanation for it.

[scaldedcat]

I've been one of the few who have stuck up for you in the past atg, not because I necessarily agreed with what you said but I just don't like the pack mentality that occurrs on this forum sometimes against people who have different opionions to most. I found it a little funny and hypocritical of many who bagged you out when you left?? and when you returned, welcomed you back like a long lost friend. Maybe they believed you'd grown up a bit, who know's?
But this latest post of your's really does it for me. Sure the guy shouldn't have been staring, it's just rude, but other than that, he obviously has no idea of your's or any wheelchair bound person's ability, so when he saw what you were able to do, he was probably amazed and just wanted to share his admiration. And you felt the need to get stuck into him. Bravo! Must have made you feel much better. Like I said, no he shouldn't stare, but other the that, I can't see what the poor bloke did to invoke such a rude response.
Maybe you need to sit back and think for a second that some people are just being nice, even though YOU see it in a completely differnt light. Take the compliment, just say a polite "thanks" or whatever, and get over it. If people offer to help me, even though I don't require it, I don't get all huffy and spit out a rude response, I thank them very much, but say "I'm fine thank you". These people are doing what they believe to be the right thing, and I believe they are too. Some people may have needed assistance in my case and would have appreciated the help. These people aren't to know what abilities you have or don't have.
In your case it is just a guy who was so impressed with what you had done, he congratulated you (probably a bit over the top) and your response was to be rude to him.
I know you will come back with the "I'm missing the point of your post la la la" but that's exactly what it comes down to. We operate from a wheelchair, and human nature being what it is, people are interested, and when they have not experienced someone in a chair achieving what is to some (certainly me, and I'm in a bloody chair) a significant achievment, they may feel the need to comment on it. God knows this bloke never will again, and I'm sure you're happy you put him in his place.

[A trophy guy]

I've been one of the few who have stuck up for you in the past atg, not because I necessarily agreed with what you said but I just don't like the pack mentality that occurrs on this forum sometimes against people who have different opionions to most. I found it a little funny and hypocritical of many who bagged you out when you left?? and when you returned, welcomed you back like a long lost friend. Maybe they believed you'd grown up a bit, who know's?
But this latest post of your's really does it for me. Sure the guy shouldn't have been staring, it's just rude, but other than that, he obviously has no idea of your's or any wheelchair bound person's ability, so when he saw what you were able to do, he was probably amazed and just wanted to share his admiration. And you felt the need to get stuck into him. Bravo! Must have made you feel much better. Like I said, no he shouldn't stare, but other the that, I can't see what the poor bloke did to invoke such a rude response.
Maybe you need to sit back and think for a second that some people are just being nice, even though YOU see it in a completely differnt light. Take the compliment, just say a polite "thanks" or whatever, and get over it. If people offer to help me, even though I don't require it, I don't get all huffy and spit out a rude response, I thank them very much, but say "I'm fine thank you". These people are doing what they believe to be the right thing, and I believe they are too. Some people may have needed assistance in my case and would have appreciated the help. These people aren't to know what abilities you have or don't have.
In your case it is just a guy who was so impressed with what you had done, he congratulated you (probably a bit over the top) and your response was to be rude to him.
I know you will come back with the "I'm missing the point of your post la la la" but that's exactly what it comes down to. We operate from a wheelchair, and human nature being what it is, people are interested, and when they have not experienced someone in a chair achieving what is to some (certainly me, and I'm in a bloody chair) a significant achievment, they may feel the need to comment on it. God knows this bloke never will again, and I'm sure you're happy you put him in his place.

Imagine the scene, if you will. The issue wasn't him staring, I thought I made that perfectly clear. The issue was the way he was talking and interacting with me. He was talking and treating me like a six year old child or a person with the mental capacity of such. "Oooh, all by yourself!!" "Way to go, Champ!" Followed by a double thumbs up with a big smile. This offended me deeply.

And I was absolutely NOT rude to him. I simply told the guy that I found the way he was talking to me to be offensive. And I did begin to explain why, but the guy indignantly turned away in a huff before I even had a chance. But I wasn't angry, loud, nasty or mean-in any way. I just needed to communicate to him that I was a fellow adult. What prevented him, when I slid into the tub, from turning to me and saying something like, "You know, I gotta admit, I've never seen anyone move quit so nimbly in a chair before." ? You know, talk to me as if I am a peer. Not as if I am your toddler grandchild taking his very first step.

And the point of the story, as I said at the end, wasn't anything this guy did. It was the ubiquity of such events. Normally I just let things slid and pay them no mind. But this just got under my skin, so I tried talking to the guy. Because I wanted to be seen and communicated with as a fellow compentent adult. I ask so much, I know. And it didn't go so well. But I did nothing wrong.

Edited by A trophy guy, 20 December 2011 - 02:40 AM.

[dancin' johnny]

"Oooh, all by yourself!!" "Way to go, Champ!" Followed by a double thumbs up with a big smile.

It's so obvious this guy was hitting on you.

Edited by dancin' johnny, 20 December 2011 - 02:53 AM.

[Vanessamaee]

I have thought a lot about this... and I can't actually think of one time this has happened. And none of this well your still new to this crap. Its been 8 months (almost) and I have done a lot and been to MANY places (Im hard to stop) and can't think of a time I've had someone completely not listen to me? MAybe it's the way I present myself or can change conversations around? Like for instance I've had people ask me if I need help getting into my car (this usually happens when I have a spasm in the middle of my transfer and lay on my horn... opps ) But I always so no thank you! I've totally got this (: (Upbeat cheerful way though, Im generally happy (: ) and those coupe of times the guy ( different guys each time) have asked if they could watch because they haven't ever seen anyone do it before. So I get in and then sit there with my legs out as we talk about stuff. They usually ask about my car, which I dont mind at all since It's my baby, about hand controls and if it is difficult to drive or anything. Then it's a "That's really cool! Have a great day!" and done. I don't mind it, people are curious.

I also had an encounter where a store I usually buy my clothes from *cough* *cough* Dicks Sporting Goods *cough* wasn't very accessible. They had racks and shelves thrown everywhere and I couldnt access the last half of the store. I talked to the store manager, and she actually gave me a 50 dollars off on my purchase and a 50% off for my next time there and when I went back the store had been completely redone and was totally accessible.

Not all people are ignorant. Some are just curious. The able bodied don't have this long lasting grudge or hate for wheelchair users, which is what some people make it seem like. Yes, some people may ask "stupid" questions or say "stupid" things, but they don't know any better if they haven't been around someone in a wheelchair before.

I can say the ONLY time I have felt uncomfortable (besides at sporting events during the national anthem.) is when someone asks the question of "are you getting any better?" "When will you be better?" "Will you walk again?" or somewhere along those lines, but I dont get irritated by it, they don't know any better. Hell I know when I was first told I was paralyzed I thought my legs were going to have to beg amputated. I just hope that people on here aren't being grumpy towards other people... not only could it make a lasting impression on that person of how a wheelchair user acts or scare them away, but instead maybe try educating the person a little? If they ask you if you need help, explain to them you've got it but if they want to see how you do it then theyre more than welcome? OR if it's a store or restaurant or hotel or any other kind of business and they are totally not listening to you... throw the word ADA around a little and they are usually more than happy to accomidate

But one quote comes to mind here, I actually showed up to school and a couple of my friends had wrote it on my locker because they said it reminded them of me
"Be the Change You Want to See in the World" - Ghandi

Edited by Vanessamaee, 20 December 2011 - 03:04 AM.

[StillFingers]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Some people just never get it; care to...they usually follow the piper off the cliff or require a
Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

Edited by StillFingers, 20 December 2011 - 04:21 AM.

[lavenderthistle]

This is true...before you decide to think I'm exaggerating....my Mom and sister tend to lack a compassion gene...(all of the compassion genes, unless one of them has a head cold)

My sister saw a post I'd made to a friend;

"I've been a bit blue, it's been 6 months and reality is sinking in. I'm so glad I have you to talk to...my normal family and friends don't get it"

Simple right?

WRONG!!

My Sister called to my mom to complain how hurt SHE WAS that I had the nerve to lean on other people.
My mom then told ME I didn't deserve support because no one was ever there for here when she was sick. She further told me that my online group was no type of support group at all, that I needed a "real" support group. This hit on the same day I finally decided to shed a tear of two because I had forgotten there were things that must occur on Sunday that had not occurred. (bowel day) I forgot and it hit me hard...so...like a true woman...I got misty.

They don't want to know anything about my issues. They have made it clear time and again that this is all above them. If my own family doesn't care...how are strangers you meet supposed to connect.

It is a bit of ignorance. People have at this point seen wheelchair, cane, walker and crutch users...they all get the fish out of water stare when you tell them what's wrong. I had that stare when I was told I had an injury...it didn't make sense to me. I still felt things...I know so much more than I did, but I am still ignorant to a great many things. It isn't stupidity...I will learn if I take the time or am educated in a subject...but yes, I am ignorant until educated.

How does this apply you ask??? I do digress...

We assume that our fellow man is desiring of understanding if only we educate them.....sadly many are not. They are happy shrouding their ignorance with their mantle of false sincerity while placating themselves with faux good will. The don't know any better because many of them refuse to learn.

Facing up to an error is facing up to one's own inadequacies. Only the truly enlightened seek understanding via gentle corrections and mean it.

[A trophy guy]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

[StillFingers]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

Erm...yeah, I disagree, have my own opinion...but I'm not you, wasn't there, so can only draw/expound on my own experiences.

This forum is for discussion, free discussion...who's right, who's wrong...we be learning, sharing, it's why we're "I'm" here. If you're here only for validation...can't help you bro. Did you notice my first post, I said you were right on point; sincerely meant just that, but not that that was/is the only point.

Jerry

Edited by StillFingers, 20 December 2011 - 04:34 AM.

[A trophy guy]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

Erm...yeah, I disagree, have my own opinion...but I'm not you, wasn't there, so can only draw/expound on my own experiences.

This forum is for discussion, free discussion...who's right, who's wrong...we be learning, sharing, it's why we're "I'm" here. If you're here only for validation...can't help you bro. Did you notice my first post, I said you were right on point, not that it was the only point.

Jerry

Now I'm curious, why are you reacting here as if I responded in an angry, defensive way that suggested I was only seeking validation? Because I am trying to do just the opposite: engage you. Yes, free discussion, free discussion, so don't be shy. I don't understand why you seem to be "pulling back" in this post. ??

[StillFingers]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

Erm...yeah, I disagree, have my own opinion...but I'm not you, wasn't there, so can only draw/expound on my own experiences.

This forum is for discussion, free discussion...who's right, who's wrong...we be learning, sharing, it's why we're "I'm" here. If you're here only for validation...can't help you bro. Did you notice my first post, I said you were right on point, not that it was the only point.

Jerry

Now I'm curious, why are you reacting here as if I responded in an angry, defensive way that suggested I was only seeking validation? Because I am trying to do just the opposite: engage you. Yes, free discussion, free discussion, so don't be shy. I don't understand why you seem to be "pulling back" in this post. ??

Correct, you don't understand, there are always two or more sides to an argument/discussion, not sure I've the time to explain, perhaps I will...but I'm off, it's time for bowel care...my pulling back as you see it...just a different way; of seeing...night.

[A trophy guy]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

Erm...yeah, I disagree, have my own opinion...but I'm not you, wasn't there, so can only draw/expound on my own experiences.

This forum is for discussion, free discussion...who's right, who's wrong...we be learning, sharing, it's why we're "I'm" here. If you're here only for validation...can't help you bro. Did you notice my first post, I said you were right on point, not that it was the only point.

Jerry

Now I'm curious, why are you reacting here as if I responded in an angry, defensive way that suggested I was only seeking validation? Because I am trying to do just the opposite: engage you. Yes, free discussion, free discussion, so don't be shy. I don't understand why you seem to be "pulling back" in this post. ??

Correct, you don't understand, there are always two or more sides to an argument/discussion, not sure I've the time to explain, perhaps I will...but I'm off, it's time for bowel care...my pulling back as you see it...just a different way; of seeing...night.

I agree, there are always two (or more) sides to an argument/discussion. Which is exactly why I have been trying to stoke discussion. Where did I "shoot you down", so to speak, for expressing a different opinion? That is what I don't understand.

It's almost as if (because this is not the first time I've been hit with this charge) there is an expectation for me to abandon my position once a different opinion has been expressed. And if I don't abandon my original opinion and embrace the dissenting one(s), this somehow means I don't have a tolerance for dissenting opinion. Not only do I welcome your opinions, StillFingers, but I wish you would expound on them.

[KayDub]

I get it a lot at work these days. Especially since I have to get across the snow and up and down steps like I've talked about before here, just to get between gondolas and chairlifts and the ski school office all day. Also I've always been active as an adaptive ski instructor. I have background in special education and mostly work with kids with cognitive disabilities like autism, Down's, etc. Now that I'm in a wheelchair this season, I'm still active with the adaptive program. I'm not back to teaching there yet but the core group of us instructors get on really well and they'll give me free lessons on the equipment, etc. etc.

Last week I helped out with two clinics. One was to teach new instructors to teach a client in a bi-ski (very basics) and the next was to help teach the volunteers who generally go out with an instructor on an adaptive and help (screen for space on the mountain, help load the lift, etc.). Most of the people meant the world but the general idea I got behind them all was that they were there to "do something good" and "help disabled people". They saw the whole experience more as babysitting a disabled person and getting a pat on the back as opposed to giving someone who happens to be disabled a pat on the back. Yes at our resort, most of our clients use the bi-ski and have no interest in any hard core technical skiing. But most of the newbies in the clinics were shocked to work with me in the clinic and watch the instructor and I banter about my outrigging technique and mess around. They were petrified of letting me fall (I usually mono-ski so no tether but for the clinic I was tethered on the bi-ski) and in turn I fell more because they would pull too tight on me. I'm guessing it's a metaphor of sorts for the way many AB view disabled people. When they saw me fall on my own to demonstrate techniques and laugh along with the instructor they slowly began to realise I wasn't a piece of china, but just any other skier on the mountain.

I think people see disabled people as just that, disabled people. They're usually good, educated people with the best of intentions but I think a lot of it is society and the way we're raised. People just aren't used to seeing disabled people as people who happen to be disabled, if that subtle semantic difference makes sense. They just put our disabilities at the forefront and judge our achievements and abilities based on our SCI or developmental disability. It then shocks them when we act like any other person with the same hopes and dreams and desires and we put those first. I'm hoping with time that will change, just like the general attitude towards disabled people has changed in the last few decades. I'm not saying it's good or there's no discrimination, I just am a realist and know these things do take time. Unless someone is blatantly rude and gets in my way of doing something solely because of my disability, I generally don't hold the pitying type discrimination against people. I just keep doing my thing and hope it helps change their perspective. I'm not out to be some sort of role model either (I had to yell at a lot of parents today while I manned the 300+ kid lunch time) and if people still hold their views, at least I'm still doing my thing.

[StillFingers]

ATG - Apologies, I'm on my side using my new kindle fire tablet, my 1st time on App doing so. The browser on the fire is different than on my laptop, so I'll be brief, followup tomorrow if I can. One arm, no fingers...just a pointer. I'm not angry, really, try reading a few of my other 7000 posts, your opinions are great, keep posting, your opinions are much needed,wanted. You've been here on App a few months, it's 3yrs for me. Given time we both will better understand each other, how we communicate. Be well, I must attend to business, night, seeya soon. Jerry.

Edited by StillFingers, 20 December 2011 - 05:40 AM.

[A trophy guy]

I get it a lot at work these days. Especially since I have to get across the snow and up and down steps like I've talked about before here, just to get between gondolas and chairlifts and the ski school office all day. Also I've always been active as an adaptive ski instructor. I have background in special education and mostly work with kids with cognitive disabilities like autism, Down's, etc. Now that I'm in a wheelchair this season, I'm still active with the adaptive program. I'm not back to teaching there yet but the core group of us instructors get on really well and they'll give me free lessons on the equipment, etc. etc.

Last week I helped out with two clinics. One was to teach new instructors to teach a client in a bi-ski (very basics) and the next was to help teach the volunteers who generally go out with an instructor on an adaptive and help (screen for space on the mountain, help load the lift, etc.). Most of the people meant the world but the general idea I got behind them all was that they were there to "do something good" and "help disabled people". They saw the whole experience more as babysitting a disabled person and getting a pat on the back as opposed to giving someone who happens to be disabled a pat on the back. Yes at our resort, most of our clients use the bi-ski and have no interest in any hard core technical skiing. But most of the newbies in the clinics were shocked to work with me in the clinic and watch the instructor and I banter about my outrigging technique and mess around. They were petrified of letting me fall (I usually mono-ski so no tether but for the clinic I was tethered on the bi-ski) and in turn I fell more because they would pull too tight on me. I'm guessing it's a metaphor of sorts for the way many AB view disabled people. When they saw me fall on my own to demonstrate techniques and laugh along with the instructor they slowly began to realise I wasn't a piece of china, but just any other skier on the mountain.

I think people see disabled people as just that, disabled people. They're usually good, educated people with the best of intentions but I think a lot of it is society and the way we're raised. People just aren't used to seeing disabled people as people who happen to be disabled, if that subtle semantic difference makes sense. They just put our disabilities at the forefront and judge our achievements and abilities based on our SCI or developmental disability. It then shocks them when we act like any other person with the same hopes and dreams and desires and we put those first. I'm hoping with time that will change, just like the general attitude towards disabled people has changed in the last few decades. I'm not saying it's good or there's no discrimination, I just am a realist and know these things do take time. Unless someone is blatantly rude and gets in my way of doing something solely because of my disability, I generally don't hold the pitying type discrimination against people. I just keep doing my thing and hope it helps change their perspective. I'm not out to be some sort of role model either (I had to yell at a lot of parents today while I manned the 300+ kid lunch time) and if people still hold their views, at least I'm still doing my thing.

Very well put. I think you said a lot of what I have been trying to say in this and other threads. The only way change will happen, IMO, is if we make it happen. Educating people, engaging the world, getting out there and speaking out. It's not negativity to want equality. It's not negativity to want people to see you first and treat you thusly. I think the true negative thing would be in ever accepting such a tragic thing.

Edited by A trophy guy, 20 December 2011 - 06:47 AM.

[KayDub]

Very well put. I think you said a lot of what I have been trying to say in this and other threads. The only way change will happen, IMO, is if we make it happen. Educating people, engaging the world, getting out there and speaking out. It's not negativity to want equality. It's not negativity to want people to see you first and treat you thusly. I think the true negative thing would be in ever accepting such a tragic thing.

Thanks. A lot of people go out there to make themselves advocates and I support their decision. I think my own life is based more of the desire to live just as I did before. If I change people's attitudes and advocate for the disabled community, great. A lot of my co-workers have taken my side when they found out what a hard time I had keeping my job with HR this summer. They say how I'll be such a great asset and advocate and what have you. That's great and all but I want to be seen for my other qualities, my leadership skills, how well I work with kids, my teaching style, getting along well with co-workers and being innovative. I personally don't want to be seen first off as an advocate, but if I am, I'm not going to complain. It just won't be my central focus.

I think it comes down to your own personal experiences pre and post SCI. I've always been super outgoing and active. My college degree is in hydrology and geography, which involved hiking mountains and in the snow to do field research. My hobbies have always been rock climbing, mountain biking, kayaking, backpacking, skiing, ice hockey, etc. I teach kids, skiing, in the classroom, in summer camp, lots of hands on stuff. For me to even come to close to continuing any semblance of my life post SCI I had to really just go out there and do things that "people don't usually see many disabled people do" (I put that in quotes because I think that's a gross generalisation of an antiquated attitude). I hear at work and around town from people all the time that "You're so positive and brave for just going out there, if it were me I'd be so bitter and depressed and wouldn't know how to live." I guess I can't blame them for thinking that. But at the same time I just shrug and say, "Well staying at home in bed is pretty boring and I'm just doing what I did before, sitting down, with more wheelies." I don't know if it's a survival mode thing that kicks in when you're faced with a major illness or injury, but I really think it's that experience that really separates attitudes and beliefs about disability between the disabled and ABs with no close connection to anyone who's disabled.

All I know is today at work I proved to my boss I was capable of taking over running lunch for 300 kids and organising all the official class lists and documents, something he was skeptical of assigning me to. He's a really really nice guy but he just didn't think I'd be up for it. Then, as I got on the gondola (after making a few quips about being an idiot who runs into the gondola getting on sometimes because I refuse to let them slow it down) that I have to take down the mountain (until my mono-skiing gets slightly better, unfortunately it's busy season here meaning all work and no play for us) and got to the bottom the girl lifties said the guys at the top had phoned down and asked who I was. They told me they thought I was cute. I know it seems really petty and silly but it felt nice for the first time to be directly seen as just another girl, doing my job well, rocking around, and not the wheelchair girl. And if that doesn't change the world, that's fine. But it's making me pretty happy with life :-)

[Tinbasher]

I am really surprised at some of the reactions to the OP.

This kind of behaviour, the uninvited questions, the voyueristic curiosity, is a natural human reaction. However the uninhibited acting on that curiosity by staring at us transferring or asking uninvited, sometimes very personal questions is (imho) demonstrating that the questioner regards us as somehow different, somehow outside the normal social rules and mores.

Not so long ago people would ask to feel the hair of black people, we would now (i hope) see that as unacceptable behavior as we now respect black people .

Those who behave like this have not learned to respect us like others.

[DannyR]

I am a walker and people open doors for me all the time and even ask if I need a scooter when I go into a store. I am not offended by this and polietly say thank you or no thank you but if someone were to say hey CHAMP let me open that door for you well I might be no it would offend me. That's just talking down to someone. Respect should get respect but talking to me like I'm a child hell I don't even call kids Champ or Sport or anything might insult their intelligence and isn't that what that was really all about?

[qbounce]

ATG...he wasn't being rude, uninformed as to the differing levels of abilities most chair users have; yes, not knowing how to feel about your independence, embarrassed to ask, yes...so he did his best, you could have been his first...it isn't easy for either "side."

Most people see high level chair users; usually in hospital or being cared for, not many actually see; even know, anyone, that is highly active in a chair. It's gotten much better in the last 30+ yrs, our exposure thru tv, the disabled games, etc., but each of us "cripples" have/are different.

Once in country, in chair, our perspectives, sight, changes. We notice the differences, abilities, with clear, more compassionate hearts...our advantage is we live, breath, feel this every moment. Those not of us, around us; little or not at all, have the luxury of a "normal" body, taken for granted as they walk/run about unimpeded. Until taken away, did any of us see as we do now...how could we...how can they.

I don't doubt your feeling him rude...I did also, long ago...honey attracts best, vinegar often chases away. It is very important to stand our ground and as important to relax, extend a hand, a simple positive explanation, to enlighten...so that your next brother/sister that is chair bound not be misunderstood, talked to in an uninformed "rude" manner; it's our responsibility for those that follow in our tire tracks.

Next time you might reply...thanks for noticing, I do okay for myself

Deal with the assholes as best you can, the rest try and at least be polite...until they're not, when this happens it's like wishing, wasted time/breath.

During the last job I worked at, near 6 yrs, as a development manager/chief system architect, leading design teams, risk management sessions, client meetings, mentoring a dozen developers, well most of my team knew me quite well "at work", only a few had seen my non-work life; or cared to for that matter, it's to much of a bother/chore.

At a staff meeting someone quipped "well everyone puts their pants on the same way", I smiled, chuckled to myself...our president; who knew me quite well smiled back...said, well not all of us...she said sure we do...he replied...not our fearless Jer, he's got people that do that for him...she got this odd look, stood up, came over to me, said damn I forget about your chair, it never occurred to me someone has to help you get ready each day, I feel so stupid...I replied, no worries I can always use a good pair of hands we were drinkin n playing pool that next friday...all's cool if you want it to be, see this is learned behavior; playin 9-ball n drinkin shots from a chair, one that rolls!

Seeya round the forum, old fart sayin

I never said he was being rude. I know this guy absolutely meant nothing bad at all by his comments, just the opposite; he was complimenting me. I want to be very clear that I don't have any problem at all with this.

But just because a person is unfamiliar with people in wheelchairs or unfamiliar with the physical abilities they may or may not have shouldn't affect the very manner in which they talk to them. Like I said, "Oooh, all by yourself?!" "Way to go, Champ!", while giving me a thumbs up is not how a person acknowledges another person whom they regard as an intellectual or societal equal. Do you disagree?

Someone doesn't need to be informed about too much regarding SCI in order to simply treat, and communicate with, a person in a wheelchair as a co-equal; as a fellow competent adult member of society. "Hey man, I gotta admit I've never seen someone move quite as nimbly as you in a wheelchair before." Or something similar. It ain't hard.

Look, it's been established time after time that there are two opposing camps on how one decides to respond in ANY given situation, and not just one like yours, ATG. I can CLEARLY see your point of view, but I simply don't agree with your philosophy on how you handle yourself under these circumstances. Only because I have a sneaky suspicion that many of the people we all meet are coming in contact with a WC user for the FIRST TIME EVER in their lives. So, when they attempt to try and open a dialogue of conversation to us, maybe it can come across as one of a parent speaking to a child.

But here's the kicker folks, once that line of communication has been extended, no matter how OFFENSIVE to us it may be perceived, isn't it our responsibility to be the UDULT and respond back in a clear, concise, and dare I say respectful manner, in order to allow that person to see that they're actually talking to a peer, who just so happens to also be disabled.

Once you take their dialogue as offensive and spit it back in their face, do you think that persons gonna want to even TRY extend to open any sort of dialogue the next go around? I doubt it.

For me anyway, your not exactly HELPING the cause . . . in fact, far from it.