59 replies to this topic

[Apparelyzed]

Looking at the above points system, it seems wide open to misinterpretation by the examiners, and I can see loads of potential appeals from individuals who have be downgraded.

For example, there are some wheelchair users who can push more than 50m, but cannot transfer unaided.

So, which would the examiner choose?

Simon

[Tinbasher]

I'm not so sure Trin what about those who can push 200m on the flat?

I think they might find themselves on the lower rate of mob currently about 20 quiz a week.

What if any representations are the sia making on this?

[Tinbasher]

Simon

I am concerned that they may well limit the right to appeal, or remove the disabled members from the appeals panel?

The examining assesssors are unlikley to have any sci experience. Even now I have seen incomplete paras described as having "a bad back"!

The sia seems to be taking an "were all right jack" sort of attitude, a risky strategy.

The concern for me isn't just the cut but the attitude and thinking behind it.

[pikey]

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12

I read this the same way as Trin permanent w/c users score 12 points.

[Edinburgh Colin]

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12

I read this the same way as Trin permanent w/c users score 12 points.

Thanks, gotcha, was a little bit like the school kid with the 3 apples, 2 bannanas and a pear, how many footballs have you got? question.

[Doodle]

Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12

I read this the same way as Trin permanent w/c users score 12 points.

That's how I read it as well. The whole thing is mind boggling!

[greybeard]

I read it the same.

Although I'm too old to be eligible, I'm pretty sure I would fall into this category, as would most wheelchair users here, I suspect..

• "Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12."

Highlighting the salient points helps understanding for self propelled wheelchair users.

Activity 2. Moving around

• Can move at least 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 0 N/A
• Can move at least 50 metres but not more than 200 metres either (i) unaided; or (ii) using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. – Score 4 N/A
• Can move up to 50 metres unaided but no further. – Score 8 N/A
• Cannot move up to 50 metres without using an aid or appliance, other than a wheelchair or a motorised device. - Score 10 N/A
• Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12 - BINGO!!
• 
  
• Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by another person or a motorised device. – Score 15 N/A
• Cannot either (i) move around at all; or (ii) transfer unaided from one seated position to another adjacent seated position. Score15 N/A

Edited by greybeard, 24 January 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Tinbasher]

And what about "can propel more than 50 using a wheelchair" ?

[pikey]

Tin for what it's worth if it stated over 50 then it would matter. The key is you have got to take the statement as it stands.

[Doodle]

I was trying to copy and paste a statement from the DWP site but my laptop is running slow!

I shall quote it "Moving Around, individuals who use aids and appliances to move very short distances can receive the standard rate, reflecting the extra costs incurred; while those who need wheelchair to do so will receive the enhanced rate, reflecting the additional costs, barriers and overall level of need which often accompany wheelchair use."

I could have the wrong end of the stick but Im sticking with my guns!

[Apparelyzed]

There is a bit more information here: Personal Independence Payment: second draft of assessment criteria  pip-second-draft-assessment-criteria-note.pdf   433.81K   135 downloads

Simon

[greybeard]

And what about "can propel more than 50 using a wheelchair" ?

Can't see that one in the list, Tin.

[Tinbasher]

And what about "can propel more than 50 using a wheelchair" ?

Can't see that one in the list, Tin.

No neither can I

But i do know that for ESA which this is based on those people are classed as "mobile".

[wheelie182]

From reading some of the articles on the BBC website, they keep repeating that the changes are being put into place to reduce the benefits to those whose condition has improved and shouldn't be entitled to it any more, or dropped to a lower category.

So by that, those of us with complete injuries should have nothing to worry about? *cross fingers*

[Tinbasher]

To use a sporting analogy what they are doing is narrowing the goalposts by 6 feet. To put a spin on this they are then calling anyone who scored in the old goals a cheat.

If we have nothing to worry about, why are they so adamant that EVERYONE will have a new assessment to see if they have improved?

We should all be worried at how this attitude to disability undermirnes all disabled people. It might not be us this time but the funding that helps many high sci live in the community the ILF is next on the cuts agenda

Tom

[pikey]

How do the old rules and new ones differ? I have googled and can not find the old Dla assessment rules.

[pikey]

Interesting information for those on Income Support.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/is-20.pdf


From 27 October 2008, most new claims to Income Support on grounds of incapacity will be treated as claims to Employment and Support Allowance. However Income Support on the grounds of incapacity is still available to certain sick or disabled people who claim Income Support after 27.10.08 but have a linking claim to Income Support on the grounds of Incapacity prior to their current claim existing claimants who are sick or disabled and in receipt of Income Support prior to 27.10.08 and who continue to receive Income Support after that date

[Bevgull]

of course it could mean that most of the Paralympians will loose their benefits, I wonder if anybody has taken that on board and would it be a great stand for all of them to make a protest on behalf of others who are in fear of loosing their PIP/DLA

[Tinbasher]

of course it could mean that most of the Paralympians will loose their benefits, I wonder if anybody has taken that on board and would it be a great stand for all of them to make a protest on behalf of others who are in fear of loosing their PIP/DLA

Especially as ATOS are Paralympic sponsors!

http://m.guardian.co...rt&type=article

Edited by Tinbasher, 24 May 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[Tetracyclone]

* I'm sharp as a tack and could easily work (Currently work voluntarily in two roles) were not for the many prejudices in society about disability, sorry it's easier not to employ you, I will get someone else who will be far less hassle.

That is so wrong.

[Tetracyclone]

BEWARE- GLOOM AND DOOM

UKers:

Note a strategy used by the conservative movement in the USA. When it is known that the majority of the population is against a particular policy proposal, then they organize under a banner that has broad appeal, like "ban the slackers". The conservative plank "eliminate entitlements" is shoehorned into "ban the slackers". Once "Ban the Slackers" is policy, they systematically expand the category of "slackers", beginning with benefits recipients least understood or most isolated, then gradually expanding to include more and more benefits recipients.

You have this reassuring scoring rule:

• Cannot move up to 50 metres without using a wheelchair propelled by the claimant. - Score 12 - BINGO

This news will release a number of you to attend to other business and not follow this process. The next thing that will happen is next year the regulations will be updated and the minimum score to get benefits will have been increased to 15. BINGO.
There are people involved in the policy process who will flat out lie about their motives. To keep things reasonable you will need constant vigilance and folks like Tin, Trinity, GB, Pikey, and others willing to pour many hours into reading regulation proposals and monitoring the process.

Currently my country is rewriting regulations to constantly whittle away Medicare benefits, which most disabled receive. Once hurt one applies for SSI Disability insurance payments and if approved (only after appeal, naturally) you automatically get enrolled in Medicare after 18 months. Medicare regs governing payments for assistive devices are Byzantine, and few working in the system even understand them- certainly not the legislators who must pass laws about them.

For the past 10 years those regulations have been shaving off reimbursements to the regional businesses that, for years, advised people needing power chairs on exactly what they needed and what was available to assist them. They did the measurements and the ordering for everything from sip-and-puff to the special cushions needed to avoid skin breakdown.

"Shaving of reimbursements" means, reduced 20%, another 20%, 10% 2 years later, until those payments are down 60% from 2002 levels and most of those businesses are gone belly up. People who had lived with their families (and you know how much THEY sacrificed) have had their chairs break and waited months for repairs. That meant they were in bed. The business was no longer paid travel, so someone cared for by their rural family 2 hours from a provider often went unserved. Maybe the provider knew the individual and drove out anyway to fix the chair. They only went out of business quicker.

You know how it goes- skin break downs occur, families cannot cope, and these folks have often ended up on Medicaid in nursing homes, basically because their chairs or cushions systems broke, and Medicare would not pay to repair them.

The current proposal is for all wheelchair applications to be made under the same billing code. This means no distinctions between someone with a straightforward need for a power chair and someone who needs a custom designed rig costing $20,000. You see where this leads- an admittedly small population is consigned to bed, probably in nursing homes now, since they have to stay in bed, where it actually costs the government considerably more money to maintain someone who is now entirely miserable. But they dont live so long.

I kid you not- our congress is expected to make a decision like this.

With the current global situation of "de-leveraging" , or getting out of debt, there will be intense pressure for many years to reduce government benefits. There are evil people (misguided, if you prefer) who feel it is necessary, or even desirable, to allow for natural selection in the human population. Beware. Be warned. It is going to be a long decade.

Oops, I forgot to mention that, like a politician I become convinced that the passion of my rant proves its truth. Bound to b some truth in there somewhere, though.

Edited by Tetracyclone, 24 May 2012 - 11:39 PM.

[raybonda]

How do the old rules and new ones differ? I have googled and can not find the old Dla assessment rules.

hi Pikey,
yes WE considedr it to be an alteration ,,,,,,,BUT NO,,,,,they are throwing out DLA and replacing it with PIP<,,,THEREFORE THERE WILL BE NO EX DLA REFERANCES....
DLA will be defunct dead, gone to meet it s maker, dead 'the parrot is no more'
the dead DLA will be replaced by PIIP.
TO OUR EYES THEY CHANGED THE NAME BUT STAYED THE SAME,,,,,,NO.IT IS A TOTALLY NEW BENEFIT........THEREFORE ALL PREVIOUS PROMISES 'INDEFINATE'
ARE DEAD TOO.
RAY

[pikey]

http://www.dwp.gov.u...ndence-payment/

Interesting reading; I like to see facts not sweeping statements and scare mongering.

Edited by pikey, 27 May 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[pikey]

How do the old rules and new ones differ? I have googled and can not find the old Dla assessment rules.

hi Pikey,
yes WE considedr it to be an alteration ,,,,,,,BUT NO,,,,,they are throwing out DLA and replacing it with PIP<,,,THEREFORE THERE WILL BE NO EX DLA REFERANCES....
DLA will be defunct dead, gone to meet it s maker, dead 'the parrot is no more'
the dead DLA will be replaced by PIIP.
TO OUR EYES THEY CHANGED THE NAME BUT STAYED THE SAME,,,,,,NO.IT IS A TOTALLY NEW BENEFIT........THEREFORE ALL PREVIOUS PROMISES 'INDEFINATE'
ARE DEAD TOO.
RAY

Ray do you think your payments will stop?

[Scotsgal]

Facts or government propaganda masquerading as facts, Pikey ?
Most paras I know are currently on low rate care as well as high rate mobility of the DLA. Low rate care will cease to exist and no payments given in lieu so your average para will be twenty pounds a week approx. worse off under PIP. A fair fact ??
Scotsgal x

[pikey]

I have started to make note of all the help I need with regard to my personal care.

We will all be assessed for the new allowance so I shall be keeping upto date with the all the requirements. When the judgement day comes for me I will be able to answer the questions. I forget how much help I need; keeping note of my care requirements may pay dividends.

[Zack]

I'd swear I read a USA Thread!
I'm a disabled Veteran Entitled to less financial help or benefits then and illegal crossing the border and giving Birth right away!

[Tetracyclone]

I have started to make note of all the help I need with regard to my personal care.

We will all be assessed for the new allowance so I shall be keeping upto date with the all the requirements. When the judgement day comes for me I will be able to answer the questions. I forget how much help I need; keeping note of my care requirements may pay dividends.

Pikey- If you fall out of your chair in the woods, the government will hear you. They will declare you have abandoned your chair and no longer need it.

[pikey]

I have started to make note of all the help I need with regard to my personal care.

We will all be assessed for the new allowance so I shall be keeping upto date with the all the requirements. When the judgement day comes for me I will be able to answer the questions. I forget how much help I need; keeping note of my care requirements may pay dividends.

Pikey- If you fall out of your chair in the woods, the government will hear you. They will declare you have abandoned your chair and no longer need it.

HAHA We are all doomed head for the cliffs!!!!

[raybonda]

How do the old rules and new ones differ? I have googled and can not find the old Dla assessment rules.

hi Pikey,
yes WE considedr it to be an alteration ,,,,,,,BUT NO,,,,,they are throwing out DLA and replacing it with PIP<,,,THEREFORE THERE WILL BE NO EX DLA REFERANCES....
DLA will be defunct dead, gone to meet it s maker, dead 'the parrot is no more'
the dead DLA will be replaced by PIIP.
TO OUR EYES THEY CHANGED THE NAME BUT STAYED THE SAME,,,,,,NO.IT IS A TOTALLY NEW BENEFIT........THEREFORE ALL PREVIOUS PROMISES 'INDEFINATE'
ARE DEAD TOO.
RAY

Ray do you think your payments will stop?

no Pikey i am a high tetra......c4/5......bu we will see soon
Ray