15 replies to this topic

[ghost]

i've been trying to get my insurance to help me get a manual chair for 8 or 9 months now, and everyone knows how much they love improving quality of life for people with disabilities, so it's been nothing but a party around here.

i'm a little bummed because it's supposed to be fancy pants insurance and pays for a lot of crazy crap (if i wanted to have my sterilization reversed, they'd happily pay for it, even though it's unlikely to succeed and very expensive... so they'd then pay for IVF... or if i wanted to have a dangerous spinal surgery that's most likely to fail and cause extra problems, they'd happily pay the hospital and all the doctors lots of money to do it.... the end surgical result would still be a chair, and they'd probably not want to get me one THEN, either.) anyhow... yeah. so they don't wanna pay. i'm still trying (6 weeks ago i saw an OT who evaluated me and recommended a wheelchair, but she's dropped off the face of the earth and never returns my calls, except one time two weeks ago to say she sent a report to my doctor to sign, but not when or how it was sent, and the doctor has no record of receiving anything).... but i'm frustrated and looking for other options that don't involve robbing a bank.

so i've started looking for used chairs everywhere i can think of (here, google, craigslist, ebay) and i feel like i've got some oddball measurements. i was measured by a wheelchair supplier at the end of 2011, and it seems like i need a chair with more adjustability and flexibility than my insurance wants to pay for (the chair store suggested a quickie 2 HP and i do like the one i tried out at the store, so i'd like to stick with that, or something comparable, although i'm not sure what's comparable)... it says i need 20" depth and 18" width but how close to that do i have to be? i think i can't be flexible with the dept (which is the bit that seems less common), but do i have a little flexibility in the width? since i'm chubby anyway, i could squish into a 17" (is 16" unreasonable?) but would it be too awkward (and rough on my arms/shoulders) to push a 19"? i don't want to go wider so i can squeeze into more places.

do chairs have any width/depth adjustment in them, or is that set in stone? the chair store said there was "room to grow" but if what's being sold online are set measurements, i don't know how it works. (maybe i should be calling the manufacturers?)

so i guess the short version is: how much error are in those body measurements and how can using a little wiggle room when shopping impact using the chair?

(is this an odd question? does it even make sense? i hope so!)

[greybeard]

Hiya Ghost. Welcome to the forum. Sorry you're having a hard time, but I suggest you do your own measurements by following the advice here http://www.epc-wheel...measurement.php .

Keep watching Tilite on Ebay. They usually have a range of ex-demo chairs at less than half price. The one I bought was in mint condition. It's just a matter of waiting until the right one comes along. I would not have thought having the seat depth an in or so less than "A" would do any harm. It just means that the seat will not come right to the back of your knees, but that may well be the case for most ordinary chairs you sit on day to day without discomfort.

The width should be a snug fit so the chair moves with you rather than you moving around in the chair. Good luck.

[Colin Flounders]

My advise to you would be to see if you can try a chair for a few days, you can't get a true picture of what sizes etc you need from a 10 minute sit in a showroom. If you had a chair of your own to start with then it is easier to spec a new chair as you have a know benchmark to start from but in your position there are too many unknowns.

Some chair frames let you fit an over length seat sling which is the growing room they mention.

Are you looking for a rigid frame or folding frame chair? The 2HP is a folder, you may find a rigid frame lighter and easier to push.

Definitely try some first though!

[ghost]

Thank you both so much!

I'm concerned about seat depth because the shorter kitchen chairs (etc) are painful and uncomfortable. It's probably not so bad if my knees are in a better spot, now that I think of it. I seem to have freakishly long thighs and short calves, so my feet dangle and it makes things hurt worse. But anything digging into the back of my thighs is wicked.

I did take a cheaper quickie (lxi?) around the block and it wasn't bad (I definitely need to keep building arm strength though!)... At the time I had a tiny sports car and needed a folding frame, but we recently had to get a new car (because we haven't had enough unexpected expenses this year!) and ended up getting a roomier crossover with more room and easier for me to drive. I was still thinking a folding chair would be more convenient (taking up less room in the car) but now I'm curious... Is a rigid frame that much lighter? Easier to maneuver?

I'd rather have a more snug fit in the hips because it also makes things hurt less if they're not flopping all over the place.

Thanks for giving me stuff to think about! This helps.


...oh and I took a few others around the block and tried putting them in my (old) car. But I sure would love to borrow one for a few days or more. Do places even do that?

[rAdGie]

hi ghost,
i have a quickie argon its ok and has lots of adjustments on it even adjust the depth of the seat even though you would need a longer cushion but you can adjust it, but you cant adjust the width on it, i can get my hands down both sides of me without force but still touching the chair and my hips, if you make your chair to "snug" you might find you could get sores, the more adjustments you can make on your chair will make it a heavier chair

[greybeard]

if you make your chair to "snug" you might find you could get sores, the more adjustments you can make on your chair will make it a heavier chair

Apologies. That's what I meant by "snug" rather than "tight". Hope that is clearer.

[ClaraTaylor]

but now I'm curious... Is a rigid frame that much lighter? Easier to maneuver?

In terms of comfort I definitely preferred the rigid (the wheels popped off mine and the seat rest would fold back so it didn't take up much room) as it felt so much more "a part of me" than the folding one I used. It didn't creak and twist, I felt like I could pull wheelies and throw myself round and wasn't about to fall out (or over the back). As for weight, depends on the make or model. But nothing building your shoulder muscles up a little couldn't handle!

[brockit79]

hey Ghost, I think having the chair measured correctly is essential. I went on recommendation for a company that sell chairs, amongst other stuff, and I have to say I am more than happy with my chair which is a TiLite.

I was in a real pickle with my old chair which was too wide; the backrest too high; foot rest too low, all of this contributed to around 18 months of agony and disability.

Apart from the seat depth and width my chair is fully adjustable but I am really happy with the weight of it. ZRA2

[ghost]

thanks for all these suggestions... this is really helpful!

[Tetracyclone]

While you shop build up your emotional walls and get after that PT again. Tell her/him you wish to stop by and get a copy. Insurance companies should not be let off the hook. Furthermore, even if you find a used one that serves, you can let insurance buy you a new one later, when they run out of excuses. By then you will know what fine tuning you wish to do to the measurements.

Folding chairs will turn your legs in, a rigid one is more natural. At your width you are already getting larger than some doorways, so do not go any larger than you need.

[Robert W Sullivan]

While I don't know too much about manual chairs, I use a powered chair. Buying your own to start with definitely has some huge advantages. First of all you will get some idea of your preferences. Finding good rigid manual chairs are seemingly harder to find on Craigs list. There are plenty of those folding chairs most of the time there. Locality is everything when looking for such things.

However, since I am what would be called cheap, I have found several power chairs on Craigs list at a very good price. And I have a spare everything for my two chairs. Since my shoulders and arms are now shot to hades, and my age, I never seriously considered a manual chair.

"IF" you want to buy a power chair, always consider the batteries as junk, and a reasonable price for new batteries will be in the $400+ range. If you have to ship a chair by freight, tell the seller to keep them there a hundred pounds plus of junk lead, is still junk and not worth shipping. If you don't need all the bells and whistles like tilt in space and power stuff, and all that, don't buy one with it. That is what generally goes wrong with them, some nickle, dime sensor that a repairman will charge a fortune to replace. Last of all if you buy used be prepared to find someone that will service the chair, if you are unable to yourself.

I have used my chairs for 4 going on 5 years now I use one out of doors exclusively. It is oversized and has 14 inch drive wheels, goes fast 6mph and is good off the road. And one for indoor or shopping use, I also use it when I fly anywhere, it is an InvaCare Ranger 2 with a rehab seating and air cushion. I charge it everyday I use it, and leave it on long after it is done charging because they are still trickle charging the batteries long after they are noticably charging the batteries.

You have no obligation to tell any insurance company what you have purchased with your own money, don't volunteer such information. They will screw you any chance they get. Get the service you have paid them for already. It is awful to have to say such things, but unfortunately it is true. Go get the feedom and independence you deserve.

Edited by Robert W Sullivan, 29 July 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[ghost]

Thanks so much for all this info. It helps a lot.

I plan on sticking with a manual chair as long as I can but I have a family member who has an autoimmune illness affecting her spine, and stenosis, and a chair may be in her future. I think a power chair may be a better fit for her, so we might be shopping for one of those soon too.

[wheeliebear75]

i've been trying to get my insurance to help me get a manual chair for 8 or 9 months now, and everyone knows how much they love improving quality of life for people with disabilities, so it's been nothing but a party around here.

i'm a little bummed because it's supposed to be fancy pants insurance and pays for a lot of crazy crap (if i wanted to have my sterilization reversed, they'd happily pay for it, even though it's unlikely to succeed and very expensive... so they'd then pay for IVF... or if i wanted to have a dangerous spinal surgery that's most likely to fail and cause extra problems, they'd happily pay the hospital and all the doctors lots of money to do it.... the end surgical result would still be a chair, and they'd probably not want to get me one THEN, either.) anyhow... yeah. so they don't wanna pay. i'm still trying (6 weeks ago i saw an OT who evaluated me and recommended a wheelchair, but she's dropped off the face of the earth and never returns my calls, except one time two weeks ago to say she sent a report to my doctor to sign, but not when or how it was sent, and the doctor has no record of receiving anything).... but i'm frustrated and looking for other options that don't involve robbing a bank.

so i've started looking for used chairs everywhere i can think of (here, google, craigslist, ebay) and i feel like i've got some oddball measurements. i was measured by a wheelchair supplier at the end of 2011, and it seems like i need a chair with more adjustability and flexibility than my insurance wants to pay for (the chair store suggested a quickie 2 HP and i do like the one i tried out at the store, so i'd like to stick with that, or something comparable, although i'm not sure what's comparable)... it says i need 20" depth and 18" width but how close to that do i have to be? i think i can't be flexible with the dept (which is the bit that seems less common), but do i have a little flexibility in the width? since i'm chubby anyway, i could squish into a 17" (is 16" unreasonable?) but would it be too awkward (and rough on my arms/shoulders) to push a 19"? i don't want to go wider so i can squeeze into more places.

do chairs have any width/depth adjustment in them, or is that set in stone? the chair store said there was "room to grow" but if what's being sold online are set measurements, i don't know how it works. (maybe i should be calling the manufacturers?)

so i guess the short version is: how much error are in those body measurements and how can using a little wiggle room when shopping impact using the chair?

(is this an odd question? does it even make sense? i hope so!)

Well if it makes you feel any better I/we have to pay for my wheelchairs. Not because I don't need one.....Dr. (GP), my neurologist, & PT all agree that I need 1, trouble is insurance disagrees on what constitutes "need"; my Dr.s explained that most days I can get about 75 feet, but on my not so good days I may not be able to go more than a few steps if at all.....the insurance of course says since I can get from my bed to the bathroom on most days that they shouldn't have to buy me one, & that for those days when I can't get to the bathroom they'll buy me a bedside commode & my Mom + B/F can just give me bed baths. Why? Cuz forearm crutches/walker/bath chair/ & bedside commode are all relatively cheap DMEs, whereas a wheelchair although it gives me the only viable option for getting out of my house is (here's THEIR bottom line) is way more $!

This being said....I know your pain about having to get 2nd hand equipment.

You have more room for adjustments with certain models of chairs...usually the "folding chairs" are more likely to be adjustable than are "rigid chairs". To adjust a folding chair you'd make a couple screw placement adjustments, & replace the upholstery with a set with the new width. For rigid chairs there are only a few models that offer frames that allow changes.

If you get a chair that is too narrow for YOU, you may find that your hips get bruised up from the wheels hitting (unless you've got hard side-gaurds). And too wide will have you pushing at an odd angle that is likely to wear your shoulders out more. So I think width of the chair (IMO) is one of the most important measurements.

The depth of the chair.....wow 20 seems REALLY DEEP! How tall are you? By the sounds of the measurements you gave it sounds that although you may be (as YOU said) chunky....you've got VERY LONG legs. If you're not all THAT tall.....then you may want to reavluate those measurements again.

(Going on the assumption that your legs are LONG) People with very long legs who sit in a chair made for a shorter person end up with their knees way up....this can hurt the hips of both men & women. But we women have the added issue of sitting like that gives a strait eye shot up your skirt. Mainly though you'll want to make sure that the legs are fully supported. The leg lengths espeically on folding chairs with the individual foot rests tend to have more settings to make it shorter or longer.

Hope this helps explain the hazards of mismatched chair size-wise. AND to know you're NOT alone in getting screwed by some technicality or loophole in policies.

Thank you both so much!

I'm concerned about seat depth because the shorter kitchen chairs (etc) are painful and uncomfortable. It's probably not so bad if my knees are in a better spot, now that I think of it. I seem to have freakishly long thighs and short calves, so my feet dangle and it makes things hurt worse. But anything digging into the back of my thighs is wicked.

I did take a cheaper quickie (lxi?) around the block and it wasn't bad (I definitely need to keep building arm strength though!)... At the time I had a tiny sports car and needed a folding frame, but we recently had to get a new car (because we haven't had enough unexpected expenses this year!) and ended up getting a roomier crossover with more room and easier for me to drive. I was still thinking a folding chair would be more convenient (taking up less room in the car) but now I'm curious... Is a rigid frame that much lighter? Easier to maneuver?

I'd rather have a more snug fit in the hips because it also makes things hurt less if they're not flopping all over the place.

Thanks for giving me stuff to think about! This helps.


...oh and I took a few others around the block and tried putting them in my (old) car. But I sure would love to borrow one for a few days or more. Do places even do that?

The rigid chairs seem to respond better as far as becoming almost a fluid part of you.....or at least that's how it is for ME when I'm in a properly fitting rigid chair.

[ghost]

Well if it makes you feel any better I/we have to pay for my wheelchairs. Not because I don't need one.....Dr. (GP), my neurologist, & PT all agree that I need 1, trouble is insurance disagrees on what constitutes "need"; my Dr.s explained that most days I can get about 75 feet, but on my not so good days I may not be able to go more than a few steps if at all.....the insurance of course says since I can get from my bed to the bathroom on most days that they shouldn't have to buy me one, & that for those days when I can't get to the bathroom they'll buy me a bedside commode & my Mom + B/F can just give me bed baths. Why? Cuz forearm crutches/walker/bath chair/ & bedside commode are all relatively cheap DMEs, whereas a wheelchair although it gives me the only viable option for getting out of my house is (here's THEIR bottom line) is way more $!

This being said....I know your pain about having to get 2nd hand equipment.

You have more room for adjustments with certain models of chairs...usually the "folding chairs" are more likely to be adjustable than are "rigid chairs". To adjust a folding chair you'd make a couple screw placement adjustments, & replace the upholstery with a set with the new width. For rigid chairs there are only a few models that offer frames that allow changes.

If you get a chair that is too narrow for YOU, you may find that your hips get bruised up from the wheels hitting (unless you've got hard side-gaurds). And too wide will have you pushing at an odd angle that is likely to wear your shoulders out more. So I think width of the chair (IMO) is one of the most important measurements.

The depth of the chair.....wow 20 seems REALLY DEEP! How tall are you? By the sounds of the measurements you gave it sounds that although you may be (as YOU said) chunky....you've got VERY LONG legs. If you're not all THAT tall.....then you may want to reavluate those measurements again.

(Going on the assumption that your legs are LONG) People with very long legs who sit in a chair made for a shorter person end up with their knees way up....this can hurt the hips of both men & women. But we women have the added issue of sitting like that gives a strait eye shot up your skirt. Mainly though you'll want to make sure that the legs are fully supported. The leg lengths espeically on folding chairs with the individual foot rests tend to have more settings to make it shorter or longer.

Hope this helps explain the hazards of mismatched chair size-wise. AND to know you're NOT alone in getting screwed by some technicality or loophole in policies.

ugh, i hate how hard we all have to fight just for some semblance of normalcy. i love how pooping in a bucket next to the bed is the superior option in the eyes of insurance companies when the customer is perfectly capable of using a toilet... with a reasonable accomodation. the DME fight infuriates me the most when it comes to healthcare, and i have a LOT to complain about when it comes to healthcare. it's not about health OR care. it's also not about maintaining dignity or independence. f****rs.

(pardon me.)

anyhow, thanks for the measurement advice. i agree i shouldn't move the width around too much. i actually double checked the depth measurement on my own today and 20" seems pretty solid, although i might be able to get away with 1-2" shorter in a pinch. i'm 5'3", but i've ALWAYS had a problem with my thighs being too long for standard chairs (and my calves swing often), plus i've got a big rear end, so that adds a couple inches too, i'm thinking?

i always blamed my freakish legs on the spina bifida occulta... my mom always talked about trying to "gently bend" my legs into a more aesthetically pleasing straightness when i was really small (apparently doctors suggested this!) but it didn't work. obviously. lol. one leg is also a little smaller than the other, and feels a fraction of an inch shorter. probably from the SCI when i was 3, if i had to guess.

sounds like a neurologist might also be a helpful team member to have... i was always told my injuries weren't serious enough to warrant anyone but an ortho and a healthy dose of shame to make me thinner, but the more i learn, the more i realize a lot of things i assumed were "normal" are actually SCI symptoms. and stuff is getting a little number and more annoying as time passes and i abuse the heck out of my body.

i talked to my insurance today and they're still deciding on the most recent claim. since they denied one of the line items (some unspecified accessory), i'm not very optimistic they'll approve any of it, but we'll see. they have 2 more weeks to finish making their decision. i do have medicare as a secondary, but i think they're far less likely to approve anything private insurance doesn't, although the nice lady i talked to today insisted anything my doctors said i needed they'd pay for. (i wanted to laugh but i didn't!) i know their game. they can't fool me.

i might have to take out a small credit union loan to afford the chair, but i gotta do something. this is getting ridiculous. i'm miserable and want more freedom!

[wheeliebear75]

Some of the sellers have financing available for "qualified buyers". Own your own home by chance?

And yup it's total BS! Insurance will pay for a shower chair cuz they don't argue that I can't stand for more than a few minutes (that's WITH support), & they don't argue elbow crutches or a walker in order to get from the bed to shower on my better days, "but too bad so sad" if I want to leave my house on my better days or have some dignity of using a toilet on my even not so great days.....uh-uh.....no wheelchair to leave the house or get to the bathroom on those not so great days......but "HERE have a glorified walker with a toilet seaat & a bucket!".

Yes please, I'd like some cheddar, swiss, & American cheese to go with WHINE.

[ghost]

bumping this for a quick (and happy) update...

my chair order has been placed! my insurance finally approved the claim and paid the store their portion so i was able to place my order. i was able to use your suggestions and all the things i've learned from here and on the company websites and decided on a TiLite Aero R... I liked what you all had to say about rigid vs folding (in this thread and the others i've read) and decided a rigid would be much more solid and it'd feel more natural. originally i went with folding because i worried about taking up too much room with my gimpiness (my issues! let me show you them! ...probably better suited in another thread!) but the truth is, my gimpiness is sorta all-consuming at this point. and i've got a good sized car now, so the frame won't be such an ordeal to get inside when i'm out and about.

and my measurements. oh, man. my measurements. boy was i off. i was going off the original chair order form, and those numbers were so wrong (and fishy since i double-checked my measurements at home and got close to the same thing, but maybe i didn't do a good job measuring). the odd part is that due to a snafu with the original claim/order many months ago, they actually had the original chair i was supposed to get (they didn't get my message to cancel the order when i learned the insurance denied an appeal), so i could use that to judge the size of the official chair i'm getting. they'd ordered a 17" wide x 16" deep chair (and i don't know how the original contact got this right because, like i said, the order form was wrong!), and we adjusted it to make my official chair 18"w x 16"d. we also adjusted the back height (the original chair would have been far too low-- i don't know what that other guy was thinking!). i'm optimistic this chair will be a good fit (for me, my car, AND my home).

i'm so relieved... and i'm excited to get out wheeling to build up strength and get some of my life back. thanks so much for your advice and insight. you're sanity savers