[gsp23]

Got a question I need some help with. I was a black belt in Tae Kwon Do back when I was an AB but since I am not sure how to even defend myself in case I need it. This recently came clear to me this weekend when shopping with my sister.

I live in a very rural area but grewup in a more urban area. My sister lives not far from where I grew up and it is now a very urban area. We were at the mall and someone started some $hit with me, talkin smack you know how it is. When I didnt cave on what I was originally talking about which I think she expected me to immediatly do, then she tried turning it into a race issue which it clearly was not. Trying to twist around what I was saying when I had made a comment about "two people" and she responded with saying "I know what you were talkin about when you said you people" I cursed back along with her and she finally changed the entire thing into me being a cripple and about how she has sex and I cant even do that right let alone stand up. She was walking away when she said this so the verbal exchange pretty much stopped there. Anyways, she looked to be a crack head which is not uncommon for that area and people honing in on other conversations and starting $hit just cause is also not uncommon. They have several police in the mall (usually every other store) and all stores also have their own security guards, plus several police just walking the halls too. So believe me when I say a private conversation with the person you are with can quickly turn physical even if it has nothing to do with another person who starts the confrontation, they are often strung out on something or just gang members or wanna be gang members lookin for a fight.

Anyways this brings me back to my original question. I have no idea how to defend myself if it were to have turned physical. I wasnt going to start a physial confrontation as I am not going to be the one facing assult charges or a law suit to fund someones drug habbit but I sure aint gonna sit there and just take a pounding either. My upper body strength and range of motion are comming back but not yet 100% although I am expected to get my ROM and upper body strength back and continue to see gains there. So, any responses anyone has can go on that assumption.

Thanks for any tips you can provide!

[juless]

See now that's a very good question and as a man how do you deal with that and that is something I have always wondered because my guy was quite the big gang banger and all before he was shot. It's kind of aggravating when I see him avoiding situations that would probably otherwise bother him. This is a subject that has always interested me.

[cdngrl]

i get this from my son he continually speaks about...how much stronger he is and what are you gonna do about it. now at the moment i still scare him with grounding but those years are quickly fading

this is NOT to say i beat up my child but the strength thing has become an issue.

[wheels1975]

I guess I've always been lucky to have AB friends who moonlight as bouncers. Generally when we've gone out hitting the bars people have left us alone. He has commented in the past that because he is a pretty big guy (actually a former Navy SEAL) people try crap with him when he's out by himself. You know they get that "want to knock the giant down" kind of attitude. So when we're out boozin' together people mostly leave us alone. We sort of counterbalance one anothers strengths and weaknesses. Other times if someone gets lippy, we just look at each and start laughing at them and tell them to go beat it before they get hurt. In my 31 years post SCI I'm still alive to tell others my bar/boozin' adventures from my own archieves but I'm older, wiser and smarter with more money nowadays...I tend not to listen to idiots with less to live for than me try to tell me how messed up MY life is. Obviously they're the ones hurting.

Life is always a trip,
Mark

[gsp23]

wheels1975, on Dec 4 2006, 07:41 PM, said:

I guess I've always been lucky to have AB friends who moonlight as bouncers. Generally when we've gone out hitting the bars people have left us alone. He has commented in the past that because he is a pretty big guy (actually a former Navy SEAL) people try crap with him when he's out by himself. You know they get that "want to knock the giant down" kind of attitude. So when we're out boozin' together people mostly leave us alone. We sort of counterbalance one anothers strengths and weaknesses. Other times if someone gets lippy, we just look at each and start laughing at them and tell them to go beat it before they get hurt. In my 31 years post SCI I'm still alive to tell others my bar/boozin' adventures from my own archieves but I'm older, wiser and smarter with more money nowadays...I tend not to listen to idiots with less to live for than me try to tell me how messed up MY life is. Obviously they're the ones hurting.

Life is always a trip,
Mark

I had my sister with me at the time so if it came to blows she would have had no problem getting involved but I would love to know how to defend myself if I need to if I'm out alone. Some areas its fine to laugh at someone and turn away and where I live I find most people are trying to go out of the way to be nice or pretend they dont see me. But in certain areas like NE Minneapolis being alone means people want to start $hit just cause they can. Brooklyn Park/Center are both getting like that now as well. Crack heads, gang-bangers will start crap just because... and sometimes they wont let up till you acknowledge them (and sometimes no matter how you acknowledge them, there is just no correct way) before they try and jump a person. I never was afraid of going certain places back when I was AB but after the verbal confontation this weekend I am finding that I would be afraid to go to certain areas by myself.

[Califanna]

Quote

I never was afraid of going certain places back when I was AB but after the verbal confontation this weekend I am finding that I would be afraid to go to certain areas by myself.

I am responding as a woman and mother. I was warned after I was injured by some vets that you should always be prepared in public. So they showed me some tricks with where to stash pepper spray, pocket knife etc... on my chair just in case. They also showed me to not be afraid to hit them where it hurts. So if you can, build up your upper body. Even a little strength will definitely help. They also showed me how to drag myself on the ground in case my chair is tipped over or god forbid taken. Some guys keep a loud horn under their chair, that they will sound if someone tries to mug them. Others equip themselves with Pseudo tazers under their chairs for protection. I don't know your abilities, so take what I have said with a grain of salt. I have read about a guy who is disabled and uses martial arts. I don't remember his name, but maybe you could do a search to find him. His story was inspirational.

[brackman22]

You are sitting on a device that has a lot of strong rigid metal. If you have most of your upper body strength I ssume you are in a manual chair. Have you realized how fast you can pop a wheelie and spin that sucker? I am in a power chair and have accidentally done some serious damage to a couple of peoples' shins. I would practice using your chair as a weapon. I guess you can try to have pepper spray and stuff handy. As I write this, I'm wondering if there are sites devoted to this topic. I'm gonna go check.

Brett

Well..here's something. How useful...eh?

Self-defense?

This post has been edited by brackman22: 05 December 2006 - 11:38 PM

[Alin Steglinski]

if you use a powerchair simply run them over. your sitting on over 200 pounds of batteries steel and other material. USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE

another option

its not lethal and its legal to carry one without needing a license. if you can at least get some sort of good aim at the person then heres what you need. http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm
they are tasers designed for use by citizens without needing a license. simply aim pull trigger and if needed pull it a couple more times to incapitate the person for up to 90 seconds while you run seek shelter and call the cops or simply sit there call the cops and keep pulling the trigger. go look at http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm and get more info.

This post has been edited by Alin Steglinski: 06 December 2006 - 01:22 AM

[LadyPilot]

brackman22, on Dec 5 2006, 10:17 PM, said:

You are sitting on a device that has a lot of strong rigid metal. If you have most of your upper body strength I ssume you are in a manual chair. Have you realized how fast you can pop a wheelie and spin that sucker? I am in a power chair and have accidentally done some serious damage to a couple of peoples' shins. I would practice using your chair as a weapon. I guess you can try to have pepper spray and stuff handy. As I write this, I'm wondering if there are sites devoted to this topic. I'm gonna go check.

Brett

Well..here's something. How useful...eh?

Self-defense?

Good topic!
I'm lucky enough to live in a pretty safe location, if I do go into the City I usually go by myself.
It has crossed my mind what I would/could do to fend off an attack/assault so the above link was excellent.
Now to practice some of those manoevres........

[jules]

Hi Everyone

Just thought I would fill you all in on what happened to me, 11 years ago (I had been a w/c user for 5 years) I was attacked in my room in my halls of residence at University, we always left our doors open and a fellow student got into my room and assaulted me, I was in bed at the time. I did manage to hold him off and although it was a horrible experience it could have been far worse, if he hadn't been so pissed he would have been much harder to hold off ( he was about 6' and 15 stone) and also my strength and the fact that I was sober helped me. I also screamed as loud as I could and one of my flatmates, heard me she came in and hauled him out of my bed and landed a haymaker with her first attempt.

I don't want to scare anyone, but this is the first time I have told anyone other than my family and friends at the time.

Jules
x

[juls]

Hi Jules,

Thankgod you were able to hold him off till help came. How scary
I've had something similar happen to me before the accident..it has always worried me how I would handle that kind of situation now.

[DaveP]

Excellent, thought provoking question!

Before my SCI I was a fairly "physical" sorta guy - I had my fair share of scraps, broken noses, stitches (too many to count!) and so on. But after my injury I've only had a few situations that either turned violent or could've turned violent.

The first was in the early days when I decided I was going to give this fella a good "dig"! Of course, too much drink was involved (Dutch Courage or clouded vision, or both! lol) and I went over to the guy and spoke in a quiet voice so he'd bend over to listen better. I put my left arm over his shoulders to hold him and thumped him with my right as hard as I could. He bolted up-right and jumped back and almost pulled me out of the chair, nose bleeding and screaming (more in anger than pain!) but didn't do anything further - luckily for me!

That was my turning point - my lesson... If I wasn't with a a large friend of mine at the time, the guy with the broken nose would've sorted me out, good and proper - and quite rightly too. It was "chicken" of me to take advantage of the situation, but I must admit, I did get a bit of a kick out of it! Now it's just a funny story to tell.

The lesson I learnt was how to talk better and fight my case verbally without letting things turn physical. I'll argue and will not back down, ever, and am not afraid of taking a whack, but as I don't become physical nor threatening, neither does my opponent and the fight always remains verbal. We can make our case and "fight our corner" without needing for things to turn physically violent.

As for Jules's situation of being assualted, that's a different matter - not sure what the answer is there. The base of the hand rammed upwards into the attackers nose or a swinging the point of the elbow to the face will bring tears... but may also make the situation worse...

[Joed]

Jules

What a horrible experience.

I hope that guy was prosecuted to the full extent.

It's hard to say what I'd do in a violent situation....I'd like to think I'd have enough moxie to press my thumbs into their eyeballs and simply pop them out of their sockets.

When out, I always have my cane with me, so that could be a potential weapon, but it could also become a weapon for the attacker to use against me too. I have one cane that has a sword inside of it, and one with a brass handle that would surely make a good dent in someone's head. I've already broken one cane across the backside of some drunk A-hole who was beating my dog. NObody messes with my dog!

Quote

if you use a powerchair simply run them over. your sitting on over 200 pounds of batteries steel and other material. USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE

A powerchair is a monster on wheels. I can move my refrigerator, beds, couches with mine by butting up my foot plate against it and pushing. I also pull loads of wood into the house with mine. My husband's shirt once got caught on my toggle control, and it ended up slamming him against the wall, the armrest smashing into his groin area. It wasn't pretty, but we can laugh about it now.

This is a great topic, as some perpetrators will always see people with disabilities as an easy mark. Remain aware of your surroundings, look people in the eye, heads up. Especially be aware when getting in and out of your vehicle, as that's one of the situations when we're the most vulnerable.

Be Safe Everyone.

[gsp23]

brackman22, on Dec 5 2006, 04:17 PM, said:

Well..here's something. How useful...eh?

Self-defense?

Thanks for that link. Its clear from the guy who wrote it that he had one of those heavy manual beasts with leg rests. The average manual chair user (from what I have seen so far anyways) doesnt normally have those and has a tigher turning radius, plus he talks about the arm rests which many of us dont use either. When he talked about throwing the brakes on quick I was just visualizing me doing that in my chair and being launched forward from the sudden stop. Those eurethane wheels I think you could easily do that on. Also doesnt help much that I have two sets for my chair... my 25" are a racing tread and my 24" are a knobby tread so on fits a bit tigher than the other so I can inter change them.

Anyway it is a good link and gives some ideas I hadnt thought of before. I am going to have to practice some of these and figure out which need to be modified and how I can do that.

DaveP, on Dec 5 2006, 04:17 PM, said:

The lesson I learnt was how to talk better and fight my case verbally without letting things turn physical. I'll argue and will not back down, ever, and am not afraid of taking a whack, but as I don't become physical nor threatening, neither does my opponent and the fight always remains verbal. We can make our case and "fight our corner" without needing for things to turn physically violent.

Thats good in theory but sometimes as you know completely unavoidable. Expecially when someone overhears a conversation that had nothing to do with them and is ready to come to blows because they want simple comments like "two people" to be something it wasnt like "you people". Some people are just looking for a fight and others are so strung out on crack, meth, etc that they dont even know what they are doing. While some get mellow when they do the drugs recreationally, other addicts get defensive and paranoid of everyone around them weather they know them or not.

Just nice to see the tips from others on here and the links for some ideas on how we can handle ourselves. Dont want anyone to be a sitting duck and just a punching bag for an AB with an attitude or their own personal agenda.

jules, on Dec 6 2006, 04:42 AM, said:

Hi Everyone

Just thought I would fill you all in on what happened to me, 11 years ago (I had been a w/c user for 5 years) I was attacked in my room in my halls of residence at University, we always left our doors open and a fellow student got into my room and assaulted me, I was in bed at the time. I did manage to hold him off and although it was a horrible experience it could have been far worse, if he hadn't been so pissed he would have been much harder to hold off ( he was about 6' and 15 stone) and also my strength and the fact that I was sober helped me. I also screamed as loud as I could and one of my flatmates, heard me she came in and hauled him out of my bed and landed a haymaker with her first attempt.

I don't want to scare anyone, but this is the first time I have told anyone other than my family and friends at the time.

Jules
x

Thats horrible to hear you had to go through that but its good you were able to hold them off till someone else got there to help. The feeling of needing help can make someone feel helpless no matter their physical condition. I am glad you were able to share this with us, sometimes it helps just talking about it and it may help someone by serving as an eye opener just by thinking about what could happen.

[brackman22]

Alin Steglinski, on Dec 5 2006, 07:18 PM, said:

if you use a powerchair simply run them over. your sitting on over 200 pounds of batteries steel and other material. USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE

another option

its not lethal and its legal to carry one without needing a license. if you can at least get some sort of good aim at the person then heres what you need. http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm
they are tasers designed for use by citizens without needing a license. simply aim pull trigger and if needed pull it a couple more times to incapitate the person for up to 90 seconds while you run seek shelter and call the cops or simply sit there call the cops and keep pulling the trigger. go look at http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm and get more info.

These types of devices and even pepper spray or "mace" are NOT legal in all U.S. states. Check your laws befor ordering such items.

Brett

[Alin Steglinski]

brackman22, on Dec 6 2006, 11:07 AM, said:

Alin Steglinski, on Dec 5 2006, 07:18 PM, said:

if you use a powerchair simply run them over. your sitting on over 200 pounds of batteries steel and other material. USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE

another option

its not lethal and its legal to carry one without needing a license. if you can at least get some sort of good aim at the person then heres what you need. http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm
they are tasers designed for use by citizens without needing a license. simply aim pull trigger and if needed pull it a couple more times to incapitate the person for up to 90 seconds while you run seek shelter and call the cops or simply sit there call the cops and keep pulling the trigger. go look at http://taser.com/sel...fense/index.htm and get more info.

These types of devices and even pepper spray or "mace" are NOT legal in all U.S. states. Check your laws befor ordering such items.

Brett

oops i meant to say MOST states let you have one. but some require licenses and some dont let u do it at all. so i agree with brett please check with the police before going around carrying a taser. but it is perfectly ok to have a powerchair. and NO you do NOT need a license. and its legal in ALL states.

[rkzenrage]

Fortunately I live in a state that has a Castle Doctrine, concealed carry law and allows tazers and pepper spray.

[bdmpastx]

My Glock 19 and CHL is what I use and carry on me at all times.

[sasv]

I've never been aggressive but a few years ago an issue came up with an AB & I could'nt let it slide. I had no back-up so I armed myself with pepper spray & batton type 'shock stick' (i could'nt get my hands on a taser) plus I mentally prepared myself for the good possibility of having my arse properly kicked. The plan was to first blind him & then have time to get close enough to bring him down with the shocker. Surprise was on my side & I got him good with the spray (twice) but he ran away before I could get close with the stick. Its a bit difficult trying to operate a chair when one hand is trying to reach for your concealed weapon. Thinking back it must have looked quite funny seeing a half blinded, bewildered guy being chased by a chair but I was lucky ( my idea is he thought i was reaching for a firearm) to come out of it unharmed.

The spray seemed pretty ineffective as a defence as he was able to see well enough after receiving a proper dose. I would still go with the shock batton (strapped to the wrist) as the best close range defence as you could keep on using it even if you are down but you will still need heaps of luck (& a lot of practice) to protect yourself effectively. I feel sceptical about "fighting-art's" ideas as the law of physics is stacked against a sci in a chair. You won't stay in your chair for long and will have to be ready to defend yourself on the ground.

Best is to avoid trouble or strap yourself into the heaviest electric chair if you want to do battle.

This post has been edited by sasv: 21 January 2007 - 03:10 PM

[LadyPilot]

sasv, on Jan 21 2007, 01:45 PM, said:

Best is to avoid trouble or strap yourself into the heaviest electric chair if you want to do battle.

That is sooo funny! A good car tag/bumper sticker.... Beware of the Chair..

[LuckyinKentucky]

To me living with disability is about getting the most out of what you have to work with. How many Ab's would you think could grasp that a power chair could beat the heck out of em. For me as a para the benefit of a strong upper body comes into play Ex: just before leaving rehab they tested my grip at over 150 ft/lbs, when i used to drink I grabbed my brother by the arm and left a bruise almost all the way around it...imagine what that would do to a neck, or as joed mentioned, the eyes... OK OK this totally seems ruthless and maybe even a little sadistic but if someone is gonna try to take advantage of you in a chair they probably deserve what they get and more. And as for wheelchair weapons...I dont use my armrests but if you do...heck even the wheel guards on some chairs could be a nasty weapon. The best advise thou is prob just to realize your actual abilities; if you use ur armrest or guard try swingin it around a bit, find out how quick or easily you can access it etc.

[John Anderson]

Black belt...go us. I was a 3rd before I got hurt too. So far, I haven't come to anything that I have to really defend myself (from my friends and freshmen....those don't count ) I would say a lot of the hand attacks might help. But again I haven't had that happen to me, but here's a link that I found so check it out, it might help.

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/get_ar...0the%20Disabled

If you need anything, please let me know. I know a couple Sensi that might be able to help both of us out

[kabal]

those links ive seen sofar are all nice in theory but i dont think they will work out there.

i have a wide experience in matial arts aswell before i got hurt and i think taichi Aikido JuiJitsu WingChung or other close combat matial arts will help you.

But if you find yourself facing the bigger guys then you just lack the mobility and speed to out move the other guy like you were able to with Taekwondo.

I cant think of any techniques you can use from your Taekwondo days that can help u cause its a very leg orientated matial art.

Try to avoid it like you hav before and talk your way out of it. And pack a good tazer just in case.lol

they are illegal here so it wouldnt be much help in some countries.

good luck