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White Particles At The End Of Cathetherisation




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16 replies to this topic

#1 popsune

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 02:35 PM

Hi, any one knows what are the white particles at the end of the in out cathetherisation when urine is almost emptied from the bladder?

I was told my a doctor that it is harmless crystals?

Could they be dead body of sperms or urinal tract infection?

#2 Joed

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

I've been told that this is a naturally occurring sediment. That's one of the reasons why it's so important to completely empty the bladder, so this sediment doesn't build up over time. Those with 'neurogenic bladder' may be able to successfully empty their bladder, say, 9/10ths of the way, but can't rid the bladder of the build up of sediment, which causes problems down the road.

If it were an infection causing cloudiness, I would think that the cloudiness would be evident throughout all of it, not just at the end of cathing. But that's just my guess.

Drinking plenty of water to flush the sediment out, is important too. I'm terribly negligent in this area...and I know better. :D I'll do good for awhile, but then I'll slack off again.
* * * * * * * * *

Female. Incomplete para following a cord stroke in '03. Spina-bifida, severe scoliosis. 18 surgeries total...five spine-related: Three fusions w/hardware, two tethered cord releases.

#3 AHolland

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 08:47 PM

Yah, Joed is right and that this is harmless sediment. Urinary infections show cloudiness throughout the urine.

Some days I have the sediment, some days I don't. It seems to come in waves.

It is probably completely in my mind, but I find that when the sediment seems to become more presistant that I go a day or two drinking clear fluids (water) and that clears it up. It is probably just me.

In any event, you have nothing to worry about. It's normal. :D
T4/T5

#4 popsune

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 11:12 AM

Eventually the sediments will build up in the long run? What is the ill effect of this?

#5 Joed

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 07:50 PM

Chronic bladder infections would probably be the most common complication from the build up of sediment...as the body would naturally try to rid itself of this 'foreign object'.

But I would urge you to discuss this with your urologist or neurosurgeon if you have specific concerns. The urinary system is far more complex than the bowel system, and my understanding of it is based only on my own experience.

Of course, if you use straight, intermittent cathing...as you know, bladder infections are common with this method anyway. And there's no such thing as being too diligent about maintaining sterile procedures.

I re-use mine, and keep them in alcohol after rinsing with cold, not hot, water following each use. After one week's use in this manner, I then boil them and use them for one more week before finally discarding. This method has worked well for me, after much trial and error, and I've not had a bladder infection that had to be medically treated for over four years.

One other little trick to know....drinking cranberry juice (pure...not mixed with other juices), although not something that would reverse a full-blown infection, it can help prevent and reverse the onset of an initial infection. If you can stand the taste of it, you're doing much better than I am. :D B)
* * * * * * * * *

Female. Incomplete para following a cord stroke in '03. Spina-bifida, severe scoliosis. 18 surgeries total...five spine-related: Three fusions w/hardware, two tethered cord releases.

#6 popsune

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Posted 06 April 2005 - 09:03 AM

Is using a cathether once, a very sterile but very expensive method?

#7 Joed

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Posted 07 April 2005 - 01:01 AM

I'm not sure of the cost difference between male and female intermittent caths (I'm female)...but mine come in a box of 50...If one caths 3-4 times daily, then one box should last 13-17 days. If I remember right, a box of 50 costs around $40-45...but I'll check the paperwork, if I can find it, to be sure.
* * * * * * * * *

Female. Incomplete para following a cord stroke in '03. Spina-bifida, severe scoliosis. 18 surgeries total...five spine-related: Three fusions w/hardware, two tethered cord releases.

#8 kanga2433

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 09:12 AM

Can I add a little to the discussion. As to the sediment, don't forget the cells shed from the lining of the bladder account for most of it.

As to catheters, here in the UK these come as a prescription, so we do not have to pay the full cost of these. The ones usually recommended are the single use water-filled ones. The risk of infection is much higher if you re-use catheters. That said, the more you drink the less the problem.

I never got on with the ISC method and have a supra-pubic catheter which is changed every 12 weeks and just refuses to get any infection whatever I do.
Robert
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#9 PinWheel

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Posted 21 April 2005 - 04:40 PM

I got really sick once, had to stay in bed for more than a week, and my doctor said that it was some kind of urinary tract infection...they took a blood sample and tested it and thats how it was diagnosed...i was adviced to drink lots and lots of fluids preferably water......i did...after that everything seems fine, i rarely get sick as much anymore....so i think water really does help clean up your system....so i just drink as much water as i can, and it does help a lot. :D

#10 laura

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 04:41 PM

hi,
i have a supra-pubic cath and it is changed every 6 weeks! (if i'm lucky) :rolleyes: lol

i have a lot of problems with it blocking and use bladder washouts to try to combat the problem. along with drinking plenty of water and other drinks. i also drink cranberry juice.

kanga 2433- got any secrets or tips on how you and your cath get on so well? :)

best of luck to all and their bladders! :P :)

#11 hillarymcarter

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 12:30 AM

My husband uses Bard touchless catheters. They are great because the actual catheter is inside the bag that your urine goes into. They are totally sterile and they are one use only. They are expensive ($6/cath) but our insurance pays for ours, luckily! The other great thing about them is if you have to cath in a car or any other not-optimal place you can just tie the bag in a knot when you are done and throw the bag out!

#12 crita

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 04:38 AM

Hi all, i'm new here. I as well have to cath. I straight cath multiple times a day & yes i get alot of infections. I think the cath i use are Mentor.

#13 Bob Clark

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:19 PM

Hi HillaryCarter,

My sister was a home healthcare RN and one of her patient's deceased husband used those Bard touchless catheter kits. The woman gave my sister a whole case of 50 (approx. $240.00 USD... ouch) and my sister in turn gave them to me. They're great. I was gonna save them for "emergencies" because they're so self-contained and can be used without having access to handwashing facilities. Everyone who needs to intermittently catheterize should have a couple of 'em stashed away in their wheelchair fannypack or car etc.

I too should have stashed a couple away for emergencies but I got lazy and used the very last one. I can't drain naturally at all so don't use a leg or bed bag. I usually need to get up around 3AM to catheterize and that's not my favorite thing in the world to do at that hour. So instead of getting up and doing the whole handwashing/catheterizing routine in the bathroom I lazily stayed in bed and used those kits. No mess, no muss, no fuss! I just tied off the catheter part and stored it next to the bed until I was ready to dispose of it at a more reasonable hour. I got spoiled and sure hated to see that last one go!

About that nasty sediment. I'm conflicted! I don't know what it is. I've been on Cipro XR 500mg for 9 days now and have been catheterizing using the utmost care not to reinfect myself. Like I said before... among other cleaning and sterilization chemicals I'm using hydrogen peroxide so liberally that my pubic hair is now a "bleached blonde"! I've taken the clean or "sterile" catheterization routine to the point of being neurotic about it. So I'm convinced at the moment that I don't have a bladder infection. My urine is so shiny that it's shimmering and there's only that normal healthy urine smell to it. Well, the smell of coffee too! I'm so happy... only a paraplegic with a history of UTIs would be happy about something so stupid. But I don't have any... none, nada sediment at all... not even in the very end of the catheter and haven't for the past week.

So it would seem that the sediment is related to UTIs. At least anecdotally.

I was convinced before that the amount of sediment seemed related to diet. If I would eat a BLT with fatty bacon and lots of mayonnaise (mmmm.... but a heart attack between two pieces of toast) it seemed like the amount sediment increased. But if I were to eat one now that I'm UTI-free I don't think any sediment would show up.

You can have a full blown UTI and drinks lots of water/beer and your urine will be clear. So cloudiness/ clarity isn't always an indication. So I'm still conflicted! :rolleyes:

I've tried those home UTI kits that diagnose UTIs using "nitrates" in the urine to indicate a UTI. But I think they only work when you have a full blown UTI because they can be fooled if you drink lots of liquid.

It's difficult to pinpoint because most of us probably have a low-level UTI all the time. It's only when it starts to get out of hand (show obvious symptoms) that we're aware of it. One way of finding out is to limit your intake of liquids. Then wait about 8-12 hours and catheterize. If it's cloudy and/or odiferous then you more than likely have one.

Hey, one of us should buy a microscope and simple lab kit and do a Sherlock Holmes on it. Maybe someone in here has a kid in school who needs a science project idea! Or take some sediment into the doctor/lab and ask that a comprehensive scan be done to determine its total makeup.

Does anyone's doctor have them on a "prophylactic" or maintenance dose of antibiotics for UTIs?

Here's another tutorial on UTIs for those interested in a touch-up course!

In the future:

"Is there a vaccine to prevent recurrent Urinary Tract infections?

In the future, scientists may develop a vaccine that can prevent Urinary Tract infections from coming back. Researchers in different studies have found that children and women who tend to get Urinary Tract infections repeatedly are likely to lack proteins called immunoglobulins, which fight infection. Children and women who do not get UTIs are more likely to have normal levels of immunoglobulins in their genital and urinary tracts.

Early tests indicate that a vaccine helps patients build up their own natural infection-fighting powers. The dead bacteria in the vaccine do not spread like an infection; instead, they prompt the body to produce antibodies that can later fight against live organisms. Researchers are testing injection and oral vaccines to see which works best. Another method being considered for women is to apply the vaccine directly as a suppository in the vagina."

#14 AHolland

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 02:41 AM

I had a nice long post that got zapped somewhere along the way so I will keep it short this time.

The sediment can come from from a number of places as previous posts have indicated. I have noted that when I increase my consumption of cranberry products that the sediemnt also increases. This may be because the extra acidity is adding to the shedding of bladder lining (much like skin sheds...natural process) or because the acidity is disolving out more minerals and such.

One "Swiss" brand product I use to take indicated that I should only use it for 7 days as the incidence of kidney stones increased beyond that time. I don't know why the cranberry extract would create kidney stones, but it may explain why sediment increased.

As a side experiment, try holding off any cranberry producst for a week and then have a couple of beers at the end of the experiment. I always found beer to flush me out well and the urine was clear. Unfortunatley I cannot have my beer at the moment as my pain killers will really conflict with them.

Each of us uses a different method of cathing. In short I make sure I always use one hand to handle anything sterile and one hand to handle non-sterile items. That way I don't inject bugs into my system. I really find it good to have "purell" (trade name) or one of the other alcohol based hand creams to wash my hands with immideately before handling the cath. I can buy big 1 litre bottles of it for $13.00 from my local costco, or little 50 ml travelling bottles from the local drug store. I think it's about 65% alcohol by volume and makes sterilising the hands easy. I also may use a spray wash like Sproam before hand if I think my hands are dirty from handling my tires or such.

If you are willing to cover the costs of shipping I would send you one of the small 50 ml bottles of the hand cream.

Perhaps one of the biggest problems with UTI's and reusable caths is how they are stored between usages. For best results they should be stored in either an alcohol based container (sort of like a barber shop comb container) or completley dry. After use, wash them out and spin them around until all the liquid gets out of them. Hang them in a clean dry area and you should be okay. Leaving them with liquid in them will promote bacterial growth.
T4/T5

#15 Bob Clark

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 09:15 AM

I used to store mine in 70% isopropyl alcohol then rinse it off in tap (aquafer) water before inserting. But I'm not 100% sure that my water supply is sterile (or even fairly clean!) so I stopped doing it. For all I knew I was constantly introducing strange bacteria from God knows where into my bladder.

I now store it in 3% hydrogen peroxide and don't rinse it off at all. I was "watering" down the peroxide 50% for a solution of 1.5%. I even leave it dripping with it so maybe now, as it's going in, it can kill off some bacteria. One catheter can last me a month or more.

My only fear is that the hydrogen peroxide may cause some irritation or chemical burning of the meatus. It may be safer to use Betadine solution instead of hydrogen peroxide but that stuff impregnates the plastic and dyes it red and is messy to work with.

Recently I've been squirting some hydrogen peroxide (slight pressure) inside the meatus in order to kill off the nasties. I do this first in order to give it time to kill the bacteria then get on with the handwashing. It's insane... I have 3 bottles of hydrogen peroxide in "use" all the time. One for the first "dirty" squirt. Then the other for rinsing my hands of detergent, water and alcohol. And finally the bottle I store the catheter in. Which also gets used for rinsing. I probably go through a pint of it every day and I try to conserve. Hell, it's cheap enough. And then everything gets sprayed with Lysol after each catheterization.

There have been tests done that show bacteria like to congregate and reproduce in the meatus and urethra. So everytime you catheterize you're shoving it into the bladder. They now have catheters with what they call an "Introducer Tip". It's a hollow piece of clear plastic about 3/4 of an inch long that lines and in theory bypasses the first 3/4" of the urethra/meatus where this bacteria is. The catheter slides through the introducer tip. I tried it before and they're a bit awkward to work with. And it seemed to me that most of the bacteria would just be pushed into the urethra 3/4 of an inch by the introducer tip and then pushed the rest of the way in with the catheter. But...

"Conclusion: The introducer tip catheter decreased urinary tract infections in hospitalised men with spinal cord injury on intermittent catheterisation."

Introducer Tip Information

What I think would be better is to kill off all the bacteria in the meatus and urethra and create a hostile environment there. I'm afraid to try it myself but maybe I'll talk to a doctor about it and see what he/she thinks. But...

One could fill a catheter with Betadine solution and while keeping a finger over the end of the catheter insert it. If it doesn't go in easily because the catheter is now in effect a solid catheter (not hollow... allowing air to escape) one could intermittently release the end until it goes all the way in. Once it's in the bladder slowly pull it out trying to release the Betadine evenly to coat the urethra with a film of it. This would kill off the bacteria and make it a hostile place for it to live and reproduce in. Maybe this could be done once a day or every other day.... whatever.

For bladder infections I've read about introducing a Betadine solution into the bladder (maybe 300cc) and letting it set in there for awhile.
Maybe roll around on the bed or floor to evenly coat the whole interior lining of the bladder. Hey, we could even stand on heads to get to the upper most part coated! :D Then draining it out. To my surprise the tests showed no benefit in curing bladder infections. But it may be a way to prevent or help prevent them. It's all a matter of how safe it is to use Betadine (or another, milder type of antiseptic) in this manner. And what percentage the solution should be and how often it should be done.

They liberally use Betadine in surgeries and in open wounds so I imagine it would be safe using it in the meatus/urethra/bladder.

I have wayyyy too much free time on my hands! :lol:

I keep a bottle of Purell here by my computer. Alongside the Lysol spray. I use it and suggest to others who use my keyboard/mouse/momo wheel/joystick/throttle that they do the same. Hey, it's just common health sense nowadays.

#16 AHolland

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 10:00 PM

I do like purell or other similar hand creams as general sterilisers. Hospitals use it as a regular treatment for all emergency wards over here. I just find it convienient and cheap to use.

We all seem to use different methods and levels of sterility with varying sucess. Unfortunately we are all different in our suseptability to bladder infections as well. Bob seems to be much more cautious than others. I would be concerned that over sterilisation, over a prolonged period of time could cause issues too, but that might be a question for a urologist, not me. Some people have fairly lax routines and get away with it. Still, I caution against lax routines. Once you get a nasty bug like I got, it could change your life for good.

I think that people need to get into a solid dependable routine that they can use in a variety of situations.
T4/T5

#17 hillarymcarter

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Posted 31 August 2005 - 12:08 AM

My husband puts betadine on the end of his penis before he caths. He uses three different swabs with betadine on them. He wipes from the hole out everytime so the bacteria gets pushed away. It is very important if you use betadine to clean off the area it is applied to VERY well! It will cause a nasty little rash on delicate skin!


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