21 replies to this topic

[LadyPilot]

Breaking into Your House - Putting Immigration into Perspective



A lady wrote the best letter in the editorials in ages!!! It explains things better than everything you hear on TV etc

Recently, large demonstrations have taken place across the country (in the US )protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.

Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.

Her point:

"Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do.
I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house)."

According to the protesters:

You are Required to let me stay in your house
You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself.

I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.

And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me."

...if you agree, pass it on (in English). Share it if you see the value of it.



Yes, I copied it from another site but I thought it was worth sharing here.

Edited by LadyPilot, 14 March 2007 - 10:08 AM.

[icarus_melt76]

Well done LadyP......That puts an interesting spin on the issue.



Icarus

[Survivor35]

Why this is seen as such a complicated issue is beyond me.... it really is a simple as she put it. Thanks for sharing!!

[brackman22]

[SusanSusan]

I won't say I understand all the issues
but...
Wouldn't cracking down on the businesses that employ illegals solve the majority of the problem?

They pay less wages, don't have to contribute for workers comp or unemployment insurance or health or dental etc. Its cheap for THEM therefore they create the need don't they ?

And the government seems to not care about it enough to do anything aggressive about it even though THEY are the ones losing the taxes, right?

If no one would hire them, the majority would leave wouldn't they ?

Edited by SusanSusan, 24 June 2007 - 08:06 AM.

[Tim13]

SusanSusan, on Jun 24 2007, 08:05 AM, said:

If no one would hire them, the majority would leave wouldn't they ?

Probably not, we have a great welfare system too.

I don't get what the politicians are thinking, why is this even a debate? There are already work programs and a way to achieve citizenship available that are legal-to allow an entire group of people to just come into our country and spit on our laws is deplorable.
The so called amnesty or path to citizenship that is being pushed for by the current administration is ridiculous! Has no one stopped to think that people who are so willing to break our laws are perhaps not the best candidates to become citizens?
Oddly, Mexico has a much better way of dealing with illegal immigrants than we do.

Edited by Tim13, 24 June 2007 - 11:14 PM.

[SusanSusan]

We have the same problem here too, just not quite as bad.
We will let all you Americans keep thinkin' its REAL cold up here

[sfultong]

Personally, I think anyone should be allowed in our (U.S.) country, BUT they shouldn't receive any benefits.

I suppose a case could be made for allowing them benefits if they were given them in their country of emigration.

Maybe immigrants will take U.S. jobs from Americans, but most of those jobs are either undesirable or are threatened to be outsourced anyway.

[ParaforGod]

When I worked at the Health Dept. before my accident we would have americans who had worked at a part time job for two years and when it became a full time job because we had so many illegal aliens the american wouldn't get the full time position because they couldn't speak Spanish. Then for those of us that had been there for years and years they wanted us to take Spanish. I refused. If I went to their country do you think they would learn to speak my language? No I would have to learn their language,follow their rules and obey their laws.

[Texaswheelz]

Kinda of a tough debate and while that orginal post does make sence, you also have to realize that if it wasn't for people of other countries breaking into the house as it was put, then there still wouldn't be anything here but savage naked feather wearing people running around or playing bingo and slots(I am an Indian, I can say that).

I don't know how it is where everyone else lives, i live in Texas, which probably has the number 1 or 2 population of illegals from Mexico. Say what you want, but there would be a crap load of business go out of business in an instance if there was some how a way to load them all up and bus them back across the borders. I'm not just talking about back room staff at restuarants, which there are a ton of. It might be a stereotype, but they do the work that a majority of us lazy Americans won't do any longer. I know of people with a farm that sends out semi truck loads of vegitables all over the country every day during the summer. They have a large percentage of their workers from mexico, probably illegal. The guy who owns the farm has told me on more then one occasion that he can't hire a white/black man to work, they complain and bitch and normally quit after 2-3 days on the job of working in the heat of 100+ tempatures(him and his wife are in it working their ass off daily) and without the hispanic employees they would have to shut down. They have even tried helping with the homeless shelters and providing jobs for the homeless with decent pay and a meal while at work. Those people don't even stick around, their rather stand on the streets with a cup asking for a quarter then work.

I also know of a cattle ranch with 1000's of beef cows that is ran the same way. One of my best friends married the daughter of one of the brothers that runs it. Her familes old house is now the house of about 15 hispanics that work their ass off. Of course my friend is out there with them, but he also says they can't get anyone else to stay there and work and without those illegals they'd have to close down.

Don't know about you guys but I like my veggies and beef, i'm sure this isn't the only farm and ranch in the US that runs this way.

Again I think back to what this country was founded on, or better yet who it was founded by, Illegal alians....

With that said, I do get upset when I'm shopping and they say stuff over the store intercom in spanish. I think the government realizes that they can't control the inflow(least they have shown to be able to) and that yes they aren't getting any tax's paid by these illegal immigrants. But if you make them all legal, then they can start paying taxes and most would probably more then willing if they had the choice.

On the topic of borders though, I laugh every time our government bash's a country over in the middle east for not controlling their borders, for Iran not keeping people from crossing into Iraq.....yet we can't even do what we expect them to on our own borders.

Edited by Texaswheelz, 26 June 2007 - 03:05 AM.

[luckymom]

Sorry but those not so desirable jobs could be done by the numerous prisoners filling our prisons.
The money that would have been paid to them could go for the upkeep of the prison and to feed and clothe them. Thus relieving the taxpayers. So the Illegals should go home. What happened 200 years ago was not right, but its not right to take away from those who have lived and worked and paid taxes in this country all their lives either. My son has had a very hard time getting financial assistance because of the overload of illegals getting these services. My brother in law who was out of work for over a year and had no insurance can't even get help to see a doctor. But every time I take my son to the doctor all I hear is spanish and we have free visits.

Sorry for the rant, it a sensitive subject.

[nomis]

Texawheelz makes a heap of sense on this issue.

The immigration problem/fear is now common throughout the western world where us comfortably rich countries are targets for people struggling in poor countries.

The poor are trying to better themselves. Can't blame them for that. The rich don't want to share their good fortune - which was probably originally taken by their own ancesters from the previous native residents of the land.

As for the house story, it didn't tell you that the owner came home to find the immigrant had cleaned the toilet, mopped the floors, done the dishes, mowed the lawns all for virtually no payment. Then again, another might mug you. They are made up of all sorts of people with all sorts of needs.

It's not a simple problem with a simple solution. It's an age old process.

Basically it boils down to: how greedy do you want to be?

[Texaswheelz]

Sorry luckymom but exactly what financial assistants are illegals getting that your son isn't? Wasn't there sadly just a lady in a California hospital ER that died because no one would help her? I know how hard it can be to get any type of assistance from the government, but I also don't know of one illegal alien that is getting a disablity check or having their way paid through college like i was. I always hear people throw this out there, yet I honestly don't know what sort of US government assistance they are getting. They normally have like 3 families living in one house all sharing the bills, the ones I know also go to the store and buy beans and torita's, honestly that is all they eat, lots of bean burrito's. They are here to make money for their families and nothing more, they use what they need and send the rest home, but what are they taking from us?

Everyone talks about how they are a burden on our system, but I don't know of any way they can go about recieving aid from our government. Do hospitals some times help them when to they go there? Sure and to be honest I wouldn't want them to let them die or just ignore them like they some times seem to do, hell the same thing happens to US citizens though. What are they taken from us taxpayers? Hell sign up em so they can pay tax's and maybe our Social Security will actually work for when we retire.

I agree that they can put prisoners to work, and there are alot of prisoners. But the county that both the farm and ranch are in that I was speaking of, has about 10 other large cattle ranch's(by large I mean 1000's of acre's and 10-25 Semi's of cows going out and in daily) and no telling how many farm on it. The County Jail does have their prisoners go out and work but just cleaning up the highways, helping a few small farms in close proximity keeps them plenty busy. It's a no win situation if you ask me, send em home and our country would be crippled when it comes to alot of things. I say make em legal and have em all start paying tax's. Where my wife works they just sent a little lady home the other day, she had used her daughter(who was legal) SS number. So while she was illegal, she was paying tax's, there is a larger number of illegal workers that do that then you would think.

Edited by Texaswheelz, 27 June 2007 - 02:29 AM.

[luckymom]

Dear Texaswheelz, Come to my state. Here they get food stamps, free medical no questions asked(They won't report them to immigration if they are illegals) ,the schools must have special programs to teach them English. Oh and if they are made legal the taxes paid from these below poverty level jobs would not even start to pay what the government is already giving them. And yes they are getting free educations. The schools can not keep up with the growth. I worked in the school system up until Matt became ill. They started requireing that we take spanish! I am not angry with any one who wants to better himself, but instead of entering this country illegaly and taxing the system, shouldn't these some million Mexicans unite and bring about changes in their own country. I get very ill when I see these people who suposedly want to be Americans marching and waving the Mexican flag while degrading the American Flag. My Husbands people were imigrants from Germany who came to this country legaly, I have no problem with Mexicans who follow the process. I do have trouble when our prisons are becoming full of illegals who should have been sent home at the border.

[sfultong]

Of course, stopping illegal immigrants at the border also costs money... to make it pretty much foolproof, it'd probably take a lot of money, maybe more than what the immigrants cost in services.

Oh, and don't get me started on public education... my solution to the problem of illegal immigrants' children getting free education would be to abolish free education. Don't get me wrong, I think learning is important, I just feel that public schools generally do a very poor job. And wherever did people get the idea that children didn't learn enough on their own, that they needed to be explicitly taught against their wishes?

[edlee]

This is certainly a dificult subject. Even our legislators are having a hard time with it.

For me, it is pretty simple. I am a citizen of a country in which I pay income taxes and property taxes. I have served in the military. I truly believe that this country is a great place to live and raise my family.

I certainly don't blame anyone for wanting to share in the many benifits that living here provides.

I do , however, resent the numbers who are flowing in illegally. There is a reason for immigration regulations and quotas. We cannot continue to allow the everyone who wants to come in to be allowed to do so. There are not many countries that have the facilities and standard of living to entice immigration as does the USA, and those that do are facing similar problems.

The argument that those entering are only taking jobs that won't otherwise be filled seems to be flawed. If these jobs weren't filled by these desperate people, what would happen? Would we starve? Would we have uncut lawns and unmade beds?

Hardly!!! The cost of doing buisness would just go up. If the beef rancher finds that he can't compete with the higher labor costs he would need to pay in order to get citizens to work for him, He would simply go out of buisness. Just like any buisnessman that can't do the math.

The way to stop illegal immigration is to stop baiting them in. Substantial fines imposed on the owners of buisnesses employing them will dry up the job market. Absolute restriction of ANY social services other than emergency medical care. No schooling at all.

And , most importantly, Absolutely no foreign languages allowed on billboards, signs, storefronts, packageing, or government documents.

If you want to live here learn the language.

I don't wish to sound intolerant, and of course my ancesters were immigrants. But they were legal immigrants who jumped through the hoops neccesary to stay that way. They still spoke german, but they learned english, and made sure their children spoke it without the accent.

As for Texas, We stole it from them now they're just trying to get it back. Do you think if we gave it to them they might leave the rest of the states alone? It is the biggest one that isn't too cold.

There are a lot of Democrats who would go for the idea, I think. (Northern Democrats, that is)
ed


Sorry about the length of that. Sometimes I get on a roll
ed

Edited by edlee, 28 June 2007 - 06:37 PM.

[Texaswheelz]

I think the biggest thing is that we haven't been able to keep them out, not now, not in the past, nor will we be able to in the future. They are here, what is the best thing to do with them? Try like we have in the past to boot all illegal aliens from our country? So hire truck drivers to go around to each of those farms and ranch's and every other work place that might employee illegals to load em up like cattle and ship em back across the river? It hasn't worked, that's is why other discussions are taking place. The fight again keeping them out of our country has worked almost as well as our war on drugs Something else has to be done.


I can understand every ones point of view, although suggesting that all farms and ranch's either raise pay or go out of business is a pretty narrow view and yes would be a way for us to all starve. They don't exactly make much money how it is these days, so for them to up their pay rate(the farmer pays $10/hr now) to get people to actually get off their ass and work they would have to also raise the cost of produce quite a bit.

I agree that they should have to speak english and not us try to learn spanish, but then again, if you can speak spanish you can get a pay raise in alot of jobs these days.

I'm glad luckymom replied to me as I haven't heard of any of that. My parents have been elementary and high school teachers in Oklahoma and Texas for almost 40 years now, neither one of them speak Spanish nor does any of the schools they have ever taught at had to have special class's to teach them to speak English. On the contrary the majority of the kids of these families are usually bilengual and speak both English and Spanish very well. I also have 3 Aunts and 3 cousins that are school teachers in Oklahoma and Texas and again not one of them speaks Spanish other then hola. I went to 7 different schools while growing up in Oklahoma and Texas(dad is also a coach and always moveing to coach a new school) and while some of them offered Spanish as a class in high school, they also offered German, Italian and French. The one I graduated from only offered German and didn't have any Spanish classes or teachers. Not one of the schools had any special programs for teaching teachers spanish or immigrant kids english. The only reason I say all of this is because I feel Texas and Oklahoma are two of the states with a very high rate of growth from illegal immigrants out of Mexico, yet neither one of schools systems in these states are doing this, atleast not by any sort of state educations system. I'm sure there could be some schools out there that do on a local level, I just haven't ran across it, not has my family wich is largely made of of school teachers.

I also was unaware that in some states they are given food stamps to non citizens. Here you have to be a citizen to receive that sort of aid.

[ParaforGod]

I am not prejudice towards anyone if I needed to go to a different country to better myself and my family I would do so but I would do it legally. My Great Grandfather was German and came to America but did it legally. I don't have a problem with this. What bothers me is before my accident when I worked at the Health Dept. As soon as the ilegal aliens get here the first place they come to is the healt dept. They are put on medicaid, they get foodstamps, their children are put on Wic and so is thier wives if they are pregnant. With wic they get vochers for free food and formula for the children, which means free food with foodstamps and free food with Wic. At the healt dept here you pay by percent of income. They get all physicals free, Immunizations free, dental free, each child when starting a new school has to have a vision, hearing, and dental screening they get this for free. There children that are a certain age are put on peachcare which is insurence for free. If sick they are seen and get medications for free. Women have physicals for free. They have a clinic for adults who get medications for free. When the children come in to get their physical and vision, hearing, and dental screening the parents are told they need to teach the children english and the parents say no need thats what school is for. Its bad when a Mother comes in for a physical and brings a seven year old in to interpret sometimes they bring a girl and sometimes a boy either way you have to ask personal questions about birth control, STD's, breast exams among other things and here you are having to ask a seven year old. You see and hear them talking spanish but when they get back to the clinic and when they are sent out to pay they say No English. At the health dept. you don't have to show proof of income so they say they are 0 percent. But yet they pull up in vehicles that those of us who worked at the health dept can't afford. Whats bad is the ones who take advantage of the system hurt those who want to do whats right and become legal. But then those who have lived here there whole life and need medicaid can't seem to get it. Our olderly can't get help. I have seen this first hand. We had a mother bring her child in to try and get help with medicaid. Her child was in a wheelchair had a sever mental problem along with other medical problems and this child had to have care around the clock. Her husband made six dollors to much for them to get help. Because they wouldn't put this child on medicaid this mother would get up at three in the morning go to work at one of the local restaurants cook breakfast and be home by six am so her husband could go to work and they still didn't make enough money for the medical care this child needed. This is where I have a problem with the system. When we give to ilegal aliens and don't make exceptions and help our own thats a problem. Yes they work hard and they work for low pay but if I had several families helping me pay the bills and I got everything for free I would think the pay was good also. I saw this firsthand and Im not out to put anyone down for trying to better themselves and you can't really blame them because its our governments fault that they are handed everything for free. If it wasn't made so easy for them then maybe they would become legal.

[nomis]

Trouble is the world population is increasing too fast and too big for its size. The population is doubling faster and faster.
Still we expect to live longer and longer.

Fortifying your country won't solve the problem, only hold it at bay for awhile longer.

If you want long-term solutions you might be looking at major distasters to significantly reduce the world population - a global war, killer disease, global overheating.
Then we can all (those remaining) relax and enjoy the space.

Every cloud has a silver lining, even a nuclear cloud.

[Texaswheelz]

The bigger problem I thikn your pointing to Paraforgod is the US health care system. It's a joke, pretty much the worse in the world for a industrialized nation. I'm not a fan of Micheal Moore, but watch his new movie Sicko. My wife also worked in the County Health Dept a few years back, so i know how that is. But our healthcare system on a whole is a complete joke and would be wether or not there were illegals aliens here taking advantage of it or not.

[dom]

yes i think the original argument has fundamental flaws,firstly immigration/emigration has been happening since primitive man left his cave in africa for a stroll to greener pastures,i am not communist but the 'ownership' thing somewhat bothers me about this world,why should someone 'own' a forest/land/property etc etc to be able to pass on down through generations so making more private ownership ad infinitum
i don't believe in this shutting of doors to foreigners,only closing of benefits until proven they are an asset to society,believe me we have hundreds of scroungers in our own back yard,also there are a lot of lucky rich people who have had 'breaks' which more hardworking have'nt [who are the scrougers?] as we know when you have a million bucks it should be easier to make the second million,not too many years ago people were paid! to emigrate and colonise australia now one needs to prove bank funds qualifications etc etc,i could carry on but you get the point?

nomis, on Jun 29 2007, 02:19 AM, said:

Trouble is the world population is increasing too fast and too big for its size. The population is doubling faster and faster.
Still we expect to live longer and longer.

Fortifying your country won't solve the problem, only hold it at bay for awhile longer.

If you want long-term solutions you might be looking at major distasters to significantly reduce the world population - a global war, killer disease, global overheating.
Then we can all (those remaining) relax and enjoy the space.

Every cloud has a silver lining, even a nuclear cloud.

would you say that if it happened in new zealand?

[nomis]

Dom wrote: would you say that if it happened in new zealand?

I presume you are referring to my "major disaster" remark. In which case, I'd probably be one of the first to be wiped out so I'd not be in a position to care one way or the other. Given the choice, I'd go for living happily ever after.

As for migrants, refugees, overstayers, etc, NZ is much like any other western country though being so isolated helps a little.