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Using Disability As An Excuse For Bad Behaviour


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#1 elisabeth

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 01:00 PM

I recently came across this articlein an Australian newspaper and was so, so angry.

As a quadriplegic myself I can't stand it when people use their disability to excuse bad behaviour. To a certain degree it can cause isolation and depression of course, but using it as an excuse for being a drug kingpin?!

I don't know about you guys, but this article made me really, really mad. There are so many of us out there really trying hard to make a life for ourselves and then someone like this guy comes along and reinforces the stigma of disabled people as helpless and selfishly demanding.

He's worried he might die in jail? Well, it's his fault for being a drug boss. Yes, a spinal cord injury is not something easy to live with, but it's not a get out of jail free card.

Personally I demand equal rights from society, but with that I accept the associated responsibilities. I've seen people's lives torn apart by drugs so I have little to no sympathy for this guy at all.

Thoughts, anyone?

Edited by elisabeth, 18 March 2007 - 01:07 PM.


#2 wheelie182

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:50 PM

I think the case should be treated as if he was an abled bodied person, we all fight to be treated as abled bodied people, and with that granted you can't choose the bits you want

screw him,

If this guy gets any lesser sentence than a abled bodied person,...in my opinion its wrong

but i must admit, the following quote made me a little angry.....what a dick :help:


Quote

In a taped conversation between Allen and an associate, played to the court, Allen boasted that he would never be jailed because "the prison system wouldn't handle me".

but there going to have to be carefull, because if he gets a small sentence for such a big crime, its gonna get others thinking :soapbox: :(
That's what she said!

#3 Tinbasher

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 09:34 PM

He deserves jail time if found guilty but he also deserves to be treated humainly in jail. His needs as a quad should be met. Otherwise his punishment would be more severe.

T
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#4 RYAN68

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 12:36 AM

View PostTinbasher, on Mar 18 2007, 03:34 PM, said:

He deserves jail time if found guilty but he also deserves to be treated humainly in jail. His needs as a quad should be met. Otherwise his punishment would be more severe.

T

Yup exactly
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Ryan S 21 years old
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#5 DarkAgdistis

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 09:04 AM

On a totally different level, I was with my girlfriend in a shop, waiting patiently in the queue for my turn to arrive ... and a guy in a wheelchair went straigth to the cashier without waiting for his turn ...

Bad behaviour, lack of education ... *sigh* where's my gun ??? :help:

DA

#6 wheeliebear75

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:28 AM

About the only allowences that should be made for him are those pertaining to accesability of his cell. Being lonely does not give someone the right to break laws, and people have to pay consequenses for their lack of judgment all the time. Having an SCI makes no difference.

As for disaableds behaving badly....when someone acts negativly it tends to ech itself into memory more so than does seeing somene act "like everyone else". I don't know of those people have a chip on their shoulder or what.....but it's not making any good PR 4 the rest of us. :yikes:
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#7 rkzenrage

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:19 PM

I don't like it, but do not see how it reflects on myself.
If someone is so shallow that they look at it that way they are were not worthy of my friendship, much less consideration, to begin with.

Thomas Jefferson-
"If a law is unjust not only does a man have the right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so!"


#8 elisabeth

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 01:22 PM

I'm thinking we all pretty much agree on this. The guy is going to get proper medical care in prison, as well as access to various activities to keep him occupied, so he is going to get enough care to put him on the same level as other prisoners and I think that's only fair. I'm just hoping that he still gets as long a sentence as anyone else committing the same crime.



View Postrkzenrage, on Mar 20 2007, 08:19 AM, said:

I don't like it, but do not see how it reflects on myself.
If someone is so shallow that they look at it that way they are were not worthy of my friendship, much less consideration, to begin with.

I see where you're coming from, because there is no way that this guy's behaviour reflects on me personally, that's not actually what I was saying. I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I would never be friends with someone who generalised about people in wheelchairs, so I'm not talking about people being worthy of my friendship or not.

I'm talking about discrimination in general in society that affects me as an individual when it comes to things like demanding equal access to not just things like buildings but also employment and education etc etc I don't particularly give a flying f*@k what people think about me, but when people in wheelchairs reinforce negative stereotypes it affects all of us and the way society in general treats "us"

I don't believe many people with disabilities would carry on friendships with people who believed in such negative stereotypes. But as for giving consideration to people who believe in and perpetuate negative stereotypes, we have to. I would much prefer to ignore such idiots, but when the negative stereotypes permeate society it can even get into the minds of decision-makers who in turn could make rulings not in the best interest of people with high level disabilities because they have a negative image of disabled people in their mind and just don't understand just how diverse the disabled community is, and just how many disabled people abhor the behaviour of Laurence Allen.

It cannot be denied that there are negative and misinformed stereotypes about disabled people out there in all levels of the community, such stereotypes are perpetuated by people like Laurence Allen, and, well, basically that sucks. Any negativity I get from a friend, they are no longer a friend. Any negativity I get from the general community I try to combat as a means to change the misinformed collective mindset of the community about disabled people.

Negative stereotypes about disabled people in general will continue if people like this guy gets special treatment such as a reduced sentence. Therefore, I believe he should serve just as much time in prison as an able-bodied drug kingpin would. If he dies in prison that's his own fault. As a law-abiding citizen it's not my problem; he committed the crime, he can do the time.

#9 Coach

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 06:12 PM

View Postelisabeth, on Mar 18 2007, 12:00 PM, said:

I recently came across this articlein an Australian newspaper and was so, so angry.

As a quadriplegic myself I can't stand it when people use their disability to excuse bad behaviour. To a certain degree it can cause isolation and depression of course, but using it as an excuse for being a drug kingpin?!

I don't know about you guys, but this article made me really, really mad. There are so many of us out there really trying hard to make a life for ourselves and then someone like this guy comes along and reinforces the stigma of disabled people as helpless and selfishly demanding.

He's worried he might die in jail? Well, it's his fault for being a drug boss. Yes, a spinal cord injury is not something easy to live with, but it's not a get out of jail free card.

Personally I demand equal rights from society, but with that I accept the associated responsibilities. I've seen people's lives torn apart by drugs so I have little to no sympathy for this guy at all.

Thoughts, anyone?

Ah, a rare opportunity to present a truly different point of view.

I broke my neck in 1963. In 1968 my younger brother convinced me to try cannabis and I was high most of the time till 1984, after which I was still high most of the time till 1990 and much of it till 1992. I soon was a small-time dealer, out of my parents' house, where I lived till I moved to a commune I and my friends started in 1970. My rooms had become a local den of iniquity, from what I thought a funny and benighted point of view. I (think I) didn't use cannabis to escape. I used it because for better and for worse it freed my mind and changed some of my thinking processes and helped me write and seemed to lead me to think more expansively about the nature of reality. I thought the laws against it and LSD and other psychotropics criminal and stupid and counter-productive. I also thought dealing of the sort I was doing--cannabis, acid--was a duty and a public service. Mind, times change. There was a ferment then that is now missing, a dream that went awry. And there were genuine acid casualties; it's use as a party drug was and is dangerous. But I will mention that here in the States the heroin and cocaine available is better and cheaper than it was in 1970. (I've never shot either, snorted heroin twice, and was a relatively controlled and functional cocaine user, arguably addict, through the 1980s--much of which story is available here on the boards in my novel LOVE NOTE.)

I didn't see the article which spurred this discussion so don't know anything about the guy who was busted. He may be a self-indulgent sleazeball. When my parents' home was eventually busted in 1973--I still lived there much of the time, the commune ideal at times but always more or less stressed--I, several of my friends, my mother, my father, and one brother but not my sister or one of my busted friend's girlfriend--ah gender bias--were indicted. I and my three friends eventually entered a plea bargain in which we admitted guilt to possession with intent to sell in exchange for the charges against my poor but game mother being dropped. My father had died and the charges against my brother were accidentally dropped; he and my father have the same first name and there was a minor but happy screw-up.

My sentence, which many of you may think lenient, was three years probation. My friends got similar sentences and reported to their probation officer. My probation officer came to my home. I still, even at the commune, was mostly housebound. Soon after my PO's first visit I wrote a letter to him and the local papers to say I was still smoking pot and would no longer co-operate with my PO. I pointed out that jailing me would be extraordinarily expensive if done humanely. My politics had moved somewhere well beyond liberalism and I thought it necessary to resist drug laws I thought misguided and a form of thought control. I knew I might be jailed and hoped I would be able to handle it if I were; I knew if jailed that I would have strong family and community support.

I sent the letter without telling anyone and when it appeared on page one of the one paper that used it my mother and brother were understandably upset. They said that once again nothing would be done to me and they would be made to pay. My brother said I could play hero if I wanted to but he didn't want to. I thought that if I were jailed it would give me standing to proselytize, though that wasn't my word of choice. I merely wanted to say that marijuana was relatively benign and had significant upside, that LSD could be dangerous, should be taken seriously, but was an incredible tool to use to help the individual figure out what humanness is, and that while heroin and cocaine tended to be destructive, their prohibition and handing out long jail terms to users was expensive and counter-productive and futile. Yes, it saves some, even many, from temptation, but it criminalizes and also inevitably corrupts I think still more.

I wasn't jailed, though I feel certain I would be today. The prison population in the US has I think quadrupled since then, largely because of the vast population of convicted druggies, and 'liberal' has in recent years become a pejorative. Marijuana is much stronger and much more expensive, and its use is now more often escapist and less often political or philosophical/religious; heroin and cocaine, as I mentioned, are stronger and cheaper.

I expect the man who thinks he won't be jailed will be jailed. I expect his care will be inadequate. Yes, disability is not a free pass. But it did cross my mind in the early 1970s that a solution to aspects of the drug problem might be the licensing of the marijuana trade to paralytics, many of whom I knew used it to ease pain and reduce spasticity. Of course, I was stoned.

#10 elisabeth

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 01:26 AM

Coach, I can guarantee you that the care this guy will get in prison will be on par with if not of a higher standard than one with an equal disability gets in the community. There are a few quadriplegics in prison in Australia as per my research and it shocks me that they get more carers hours and access to activities than law-abiding disabled folk living in the community.

As for your story it is quite interesting, but I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. At any rate, it would appear that your involvement with drugs, whether it be consumption or dealing, had little if anything to do with your disability. Do you still feel the same way now about drugs that you did then? It's just that I have seen friends and family members ravaged by heavy duty drugs so I'm not exactly very sympathetic towards dealers of such drugs, ultimately it does come down to a personal choice and the supply of drugs would not exist without the demand, but in my mind drug dealing is wrong. Plain and simple.

However, in the end all I am hoping for is that this guy does not get any special treatment just because he is disabled because that would be unfair on the rest of the law-abiding disabled community affected by the negative stereotype that this guy is perpetuating. Not that all disabled people are drug dealers, just the stigma and stereotype that all disabled people expect special treatment even if they have done the wrong thing. I don't believe he should be treated any better or or any worse than an able-bodied person who has committed the same crime, and going by precedent he will be just fine in prison.

Anyway, it would be great if you could elaborate more on how you see the world now as opposed to how you saw the world back then, and the link to the original article is at the top of this thread so it would be awesome if you could read that and give me your opinion.

#11 Coach

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 09:18 PM

Elisabeth,

I'm going to look at the link now but may not answer today--I'm in recovery mode from a kidney infection and am hoping to fly tomorrow, may then readjust to being back in NY a bit before getting to it. I should've checked out the link before I posted yesterday. Incidentally, after posting I too wondered just what I'd been trying to say.

#12 Coach

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 12:35 AM

Elisabeth,

So, belatedly, I read the link. I wish I had done so yesterday, and should have. I too know people whose lives have been damaged, even ended, by drugs.

I've never done Ecstasy. It was just becoming popular as my main involvement with drugs was winding down. You may know someone who has died using it, and some have. Over-heating and dehydration while using MDMA can be particularly dangerous. Unfortunately, information about Ecstasy tends to be politicized (detractors and apologists seem to out-number scientists), as is information about pot, LSD and other drugs. And news coverage tends to be sensational and careless.

The news story to which you linked is a typical drug-bust story. The lead concerns Allen's 'multi-million dollar ecstasy operation.' The second graph, presumably supporting the lead, says his cartel produced enough MDMA powder to make up to 120,000 ecstasy tablets. At 10 dollars a tab, 120,000 tablets would retail at 'only' 1,200,000 dollars, and obviously the powder itself in bulk is worth a great deal less. It is odd--sloppy--that since 12 kilos were seized there is no reference to the wholesale cost of a kilo. Allen's operation may have been vast, but the story doesn't supoport the assertion. Also in the second graph, Allen is described, in quotes, as "'the financier, the boss and the organiser'" of the, not in quotes, "drug cartel." The in-quotes attribution is ascribed to no one. I assume the person quoted was the prosecutor in the case, whose job it is to convict, not be fair or balanced, but the reporter fails to make any attribution at all. And one last thing about the multi-million dollar drug boss. In the picture that accompanies the story he's sitting in front of a trailer, not a villa. This may have been a sly publicity maneuver but my bet is he's been living in his mobile-home-on-blocks. And of course llen himself never speaks--except for the quotation in paragraph four that you found so objectionable: "In a taped conversation between Allen and an associate, played to the court, Allen boasted that he would never be jailed because "the prison system wouldn't handle me". "

This may be a boast but I'm not at all sure. It could be irony, it could be plaint. It could be drunken bullsh*tting. Maybe he even went on to say that if he was jailed he'd get better care inside than out. I know you say he will get as good or better care inside, but I assume you are at least in part saying that out-of-prison care is lacking. Here in the States some prison jobs programs that were helping to reduce recidivism have been canceled because they were superior to what was available outside prison (I can't footnote this, sorry) and it seemed unfair to lawmakers that going to prison made one eligible for this leg up. The resentmentment is understandable, but abandoning the job program seems a perverse way to avoid favoring felons. If Australian prison-care is actually first-rate, you're doing something right. But I just wonder about this boast. He wasn't claiming an entitlement. He may have just been being common-sensical (and wrong). Sixcty-five-year-old quads--I'm one--are complicated medically and expensive to provide decent care to. Don't adopt one without thinking twice.

But why did I respond? Yes, I think the drug laws are misguided and counterproductive, as is much but not all drug use. I think I responded because the drug laws are among the hobby horses I've ridden and because I felt that Mr. Allen's humanness was being ignored. He needed money, he earned it illegally, he got caught, he hoped he'd get away with it anyway, but mostly, it seemed, he was 'a drug dealer.' Hm, actually mostly he was a quad, which to us has no negative connotation at all, and I probably responded because I'm a 65-year-old ex-drug dealing quad, and I don't feel I'm a discredit to quaddom, actually feel (shucks, hope) I'm rather the opposite. Your reply to my long initial post was generous, and I suspect that my response to your post that begins this thread and to the replies to it--they all seemed so supportive of the idea this guy was such a low-life--was less so. But I don't have the sense that Mr. Allen necessarily said or did anything terribly outrageous.I suspect he's used and liked Ex and other drugs with others who also used and liked them. He may feel Ecstasy use has improved his quality of life and probably has known drug casualties too, may hate certain drugs, may think certain drugs, including Ecstasy, are more benign than they sometimes-to-often are. He may have made purer Ex than most and felt it in ways a service. He may not have cared but he may have. We can't know from that story.

Aw nuts. I dunno. And I think my fever's inching up. It's too damned hot! I hope I leave Tucson to go to NY tomorrow. I'll check back when I get there to see if the thread's grown.

#13 mulepower

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 09:16 PM

I was robbed, shot and paralyzed because a drug dealer needed money. There's no reason,at least to me,that someone should deal drugs,disabled or not,regardless of the extent of the injury. Its tough enough the way things are,much less going to a place with no women and staying in a place equal to a kitchen.

That picture given,shows an example of crime not paying because he didn't live very high on the hog,if that was his place or he was trying to get sympathy.

View PostDarkAgdistis, on Mar 19 2007, 04:04 AM, said:

On a totally different level, I was with my girlfriend in a shop, waiting patiently in the queue for my turn to arrive ... and a guy in a wheelchair went straigth to the cashier without waiting for his turn ...

Bad behaviour, lack of education ... *sigh* where's my gun ??? :clap:

DA


While i haven't done that,there are cashiers who have allowed me,along with the customers saying go ahead,to go first. I don't argue because it would take more time to explain its not neccessary than go ahead and do it lol.




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