16 replies to this topic

[gsp23]

I normally dont watch CSI NY but last night ended up watching it... just curiuos if anyone else watched it? The reason I ask is that in the episode there was a girl who was in an accident and she was hospitalized and was in a coma for a while. Her friend who was in the car with her died in the accident and when the driver came out of the coma someone killed her. In the course of trying to find out who had killed her, one of her friends said that they had made a pact to kill each other if either one ended up in a wheelchair as they couldnt have any kind of life if they were stuck in one. Apparently they had a friend who broke their back skiiing and they became a wheelchair user and they just didnt want to be stuck living a horrible life like that.

Normally I dont get ticked off or offended by things like this but man that just got to me for some reason. I think the main reason is because this character on the show was saying that their friend broke his back and they didnt ever want to end up like that because it is no life. If their friend broke their back then they would be educated enough to know that there is still life in a wheelchair, so its not just a character who has never been exposed to this making this statement but one who has been around it... and apparently the girl who was in the coma agreed after seeing her friend like this. I dont know, maybe I'm over reacting but the context this was presented really got to me.

[edlee]

I saw the episode earlier in the season. Yeah , the writers weren't particularly aware of our situation it appeared. I really didn't think much about it ,tho. People who aren't close to someone in a chair,(family, socially, or at work) simply don't think about life in those terms. Even I didn't , before I was injured, even tho I had a nephew who was in a chair for ten years at that time. I think what I'm trying to say is that I am not upset or insulted by someones ignorance of our situation, any more than I am about their ignorance of anything that is outside their sphere of experience. As long as they are as polite and thoughtful toward me, personlly, as they are to anyone else I have no problem with what they do. Unless they use a handicap parking spot when they don,t deserve to, then all bets are off. Ed

[gsp23]

The concept alone of ignorance didnt bother me, the fact that these characters claimed to know someone in a wheelchair and said that they saw they had no life is what bothered me. It almost makes it seem more "credible" somehow that they supposedly new someone in that situation and saw first hand that being in a wheelchair ultimately means your life is over. If they didnt claim to have a friend in that situation I guess it wouldnt have bothered me and I would have chalked it up to ignorance.

[brackman22]

I hear people say that all the time. To some people it doesn't matter how independent a para or quad is or what kind of activities we participate in. We are seen as being tied to our wheelchairs and there are a hell of a lot more things most AB people can do than we can. It would be my guess that if they showed the character or friend in the wheelchair he/she would be portrayed as bitter or resentful or whatever. And there are plenty of us out there like that. Either way, we have to assume the girls were very shallow or just speaking from what they know. It really doesn't bother me.

It is so strange how we as a community can react so differently to the same stimuli. What may piss me off might slide off the back of everybody else. But, like I said, I've heard people say that many times. And I truly believe some people would be better off dead. My dad for one. He could never had been anything but miserable in a wheelchair. So, it may sting a bit but the better off dead bit is true for some IMHO.

BRETT

[itsjustme]

Did you ever see the show "Ed"? I'm sure that the actor Daryl Mitchell was a real education to the writers on the show since he is actually a paraplegic.

I remember just actually a matter of weeks before I became a para myself sitting and watching an episode of Ed that dealt with a day in the life Daryl's character from his rolling around on the bed getting dressed to go to work, to his blossoming relationship with his new girlfriend. A lot of the time I'm just listening to the television while I'm doing something else like right now, but for some reason I sat and actually watched that episode. Prophetic somehow?

It was true to life, funny and inspiring. It's too bad that more television doesn't portray us that way. Daryl, "Eli", was great role model and the writers of the show obviously showed him a lot of respect and understanding week after week in their writing for his part and showed how all of his friends just treated him like NORMAL!

[justin]

Well i usally watch csi but i didnt see this show. and something like this kinda show is wut makes some1 in a wheelchair look like we have a life. Well when april 24 comes it will be the 7 month ive been paralyzed. i mean right now i dont have much of a life but it because of a pressure sore witch is on a wound vac and should be healed around may. so my regular life will be back together my doc said he would relese me to lakeshore foundation to play wheelchair basketball and to be able to learn how to drive an adapted car. So i just wished there was more shows that showed people and wheelchairs can live a life. My grandma thinks my lifes over not because of being paralyzed but the whole fact of not bladder and bowel control but hey u can learn a scedual to self cath and to use a supposatory so i had to tell her my life will not be over but will just beging with a new task not being able to walk but being wheelchair bond.

Edited by justin, 30 March 2007 - 12:46 AM.

[Gary Anderson]

Quote

He could never had been anything but miserable in a wheelchair. So, it may sting a bit but the better off dead bit is true for some IMHO.

I find I can relate to this bit very well. My own experience is that the AB just presume that life must be over if you are chairbound. I can get around on walking sticks but find that some of my colleagues think I must have a restricted life. Not really true.

However, I have to say taht 19 years ago when I had my train crash I felt EXACTLY like the girl the programme. When the SIA person told me I could " have a normal life again" I thought bull**** When I had my accident a year ago with my nephew and faced a wheelchair for the second time, I felt exactly the same way. So, although it does sting, I personally would rather be dead because I am just not myself when totally reliant on other folks.

Again, that is just my humble opinion and only true of me. I appreciate it is not true of everyone as I have mates who have adapted to high quad injuries using vents - but afraid I could not adapt no matter how I tried.

[Apparelyzed]

When I was in hospital, there was a saying that "Quad's want to be Para's, Para's want to be abled bodied, and abled bodied should experience both"!

I guess that unless you have experienced the injury, you can never fully understand how it feels to be disabled, and how your actions towards the disabled community will be percieved.

Even the people who should know better get it wrong from time to time, for instance, in the UK there is a search underway for someone to win an active part in "Joseph".

I jokingly said to my wife "I could do that", to which she replied "darling, how would you get around the stage in that large coat in your wheelchair?".

Note, she didn't say "but you can't sing" which is true!

But she saw the wheelchair as the over riding factor, over the fact that I can't sing.

Of course, we both laughed about it, but it shows that even those very close to people with a disability can get it wrong from time to time as well.

Simon

[LadyPilot]

I believe this particular episode of CSI-NY is being shown on FIVE tonight (UK) at 21.05hrs.

I never gave any thought to the possibility of being a wheelchair user before my accident and afterwards I guess my will to live is greater than my wish to die.......


Simon I've just had the following conversation with my Husband based on the one you had with your wife!!

ME: Should I audition to play in Joseph and his multi coloured dream coat?
HIM: If you want to....

I wasn't sure he was really listening (playing a new game on his PC) so I asked a further question

ME: You really think I should 'go for it?'
HIM: Well, do you realistically think you could manage two perfomances a day?

I nearly fell off my chair laughing, since I can't act, can't sing and Ive never been on stage in my life. But it just proves what Ive always thought, that to him my chair is invisible.

[elisabeth]

The sad thing is that there are many people in wheelchairs out there who do not believe that their life is worthy, and movies and TV shows like this are reinforcing the stereotype that life is not worth living when in a wheelchair i.e. "Million-Dollar Baby" and "The Sea Inside" movies, not to mention this particular episode of CSI.

Ultimately, a spinal cord injury is a tragedy, a f*@king big tragedy, but people need to learn that it is not insurmountable, that a normal life per se will never be reached again, but it is more than possible with some strength and determination and love and understanding from all around that a beautiful and rewarding life can be lived.

I actually don't mind if movies or TV shows present how some people feel about "wishing to be dead instead...", but what does annoy me is the lack of education. Why can't such TV shows and movies at the end direct the viewer to a website or something to show the achievements of people with a spinal cord injury, why can't the producers or writers etc somehow get into the script that being dead is actually not better off?

I went to see Million-Dollar Baby because I thought it was a movie about boxing and I like boxing, so I went with a few friends of mine who are involved in the sport of boxing. None of us knew that it was actually also about spinal cord injury. The story itself was actually quite interesting but what left me seething was that her choice to die and her trainer helping her were represented as not just normal, but the right way to go, the right thing to do. It was unbalanced and made me so f*@king angry that only one side of the story, the negative side of the story was presented. I also don't believe I'm selfish when I say that in the movie the so-called Million-Dollar Baby was regarded as a fighter, sure, she might have been a good boxer but if she gave up so quickly she certainly didn't have the fighting spirit.

So ultimately, I don't mind if someone portrays negative stereotypes of life in a wheelchair, but I do not like it when a totally unbalanced view is given in turn validating the decision to die rather than live in a wheelchair as a feasible and reasonable option. It's not easy to rediscover something resembling a normal life after a spinal cord injury, and I do not believe that my life will ever be "normal" again, there are SO many things I miss that I will never get back. However, aside from all of the difficulties that I face and all of the things that I miss, I really do live an extremely interesting and beautiful and rewarding life, it's not the life that I wanted but I was able to learn how to adapt and I don't like looking backward thinking how things could be, I just like looking forward and thinking about how to make the best of a bad situation, I like looking forward and just telling myself well, this is the way things are and I can make a decision to wallow, or I can make a decision to take up all the support and love that I have around me to make a new kind of normal.

Boy, I did not expect to rant this much. In conclusion, I wouldn't have minded the CSI show as much had they put something at the end, before the credits started rolling, about how spinal cord injury is not the end and support is out there. If the CSI episode represented the decision to die as normal I would be wanting to punch walls!

I think that's enough ranting for the day :-)

[elisabeth]

Gary,

You say "I personally would rather be dead because I am just not myself when totally reliant on other folks."

I used to think exactly the same thing until I had my injury. I'm not joking, I felt EXACTLY the same. I was 23 when I had my injury, and at that age I had spent nearly three years at various times travelling, studying and living independently all over Europe, and was making plans to travel to Asia and finish my qualifications so that I could spend the rest of my life travelling the world like a gypsy.

I can no longer suddenly decide that I'm sick of where I am living and work out ways to take off again, I can no longer backpack barefoot and independently throughout totally random countries. My nickname amongst my friends was Gypsy Girl because I had travelled so much at such a young age, and all by myself. Now I need someone to help me go to the toilet, shower and dress. At first it was awful to adjust to, and I don't know from where or how I got the will to keep on living, I didn't even really try as such to find that fighting spirit, but somehow I have it and I miss my old life so bad that if I focused too much on it I would drive myself crazy.

All I'm saying is that prior to my injury, considering how independent and gypsy like I was, I also felt that I would rather be dead, I was certain that I would rather be dead. Now I'm totally the opposite. Ultimately, you don't really know how you will react until it happens to you. For example, I am quite close friends with someone who became a quadriplegic as a result of a long planned for and dead serious suicide attempt, and yet now they are so passionate about life it totally confuses me, but obviously I'm happy that they are alive because I love them so much. How is it that this person who wanted to die can suddenly be so passionate about life even though the suicide attempt rendered them a quadriplegic?

So yeah, you think you might want to kill yourself, and boy I thought exactly the same thing, but you really can't know until it happens to you how you would react.

[dom]

hi its a very difficult life when you are comparing things all the time a bit like the joneses watching what car etc is on the drive and 'is it better,newer,more expensive than mine,if it is we are a bit jealous and feel as if we are 'missing out'this is similar to disability,its hard losing what we once had and can seem like life is worthless,but its only a mindset yes the old saying 'better to have loved and lost than to have never loved is not neccesarily true and this can apply to disability,sometimes-we had it and lost it,maybe if we were born with it or only in a community of sci people we would accept it but we are not
if we were born say in somalia and KNEW about life in America or western country with a good standard of living we would be tearing our collective hair out screaming at the top of our voices bemoaning lifes unfairnesses
i once read somewhere that its all relative a bit like an poor person in a shanty town having a colour tv ad the rest watching black and white,they felt superior and contented because those around them were worse off,now in this technological age where we watch ads on tv of perfect people with model looks and hair and lifestyles,i was watching youtube and piano players as young as 6 playing better than me [a few decades older] who practised all my life,yes i felt envious and depressed but i have to realise that i was maybe better at other things and should not compare myself too often to these people only do the best I can

[Bulky]

I love CSI. In fact, I wish there was five versions so I could watch it every weeknight.

On the topic of ignorance/credibility.....I used to have people in my friend network that visited me once or twice in hospital and are now "experts on quadriplegics"; it's the old "yeah, I have a mate who is a quad." Funnily enough, I don't have anything much to do with these guys any more - I ain't nobody's token cripple friend.

From the CSI perspective, maybe they did not do enough research to provide true credibility? maybe it is like so many things in life: we see something once and that we assume that is the "norm." So if one of the directors had an experience with someone in a wheelchair, where they were totally depressed, then that was the norm.

I saw Murderball within a couple months of escaping rehab. It was one of the driving forces behind putting my life back into order and giving me a better appreciation of what "disabled" really means. Mark Zupan's RBK says it all:

I am what I am - Mark Zupan (RBK)

Edited by Bulky, 01 April 2007 - 11:23 PM.

[Big Valley]

I didn't see it but know what you mean. I so see the other side though. Ask me what I would have thought about being SCI before my accident and I might have said something similar. Ask me right now what I might think if I didn't have use of my arms.

Ask a deaf person what it must like to be blind and they would say that it must be awful but ask the blind person and they would tell you being deaf would be awful.

Every person has some sort of disability but to them it is just they way of their life and may not even think about it.

[Lucydog]

These sorts of TV mistakes are always a result of assumptions and ignorance on the parts of the writers. My husband has very bad OCD (you can imgine the 2 of us out together!!! LOL) anyway this sort of problem is really popular with writers who either portray it as hilariously funny for everyone involved, or as the sufferer being totally nuts. Either way completely wrong. But last year we were watching a drama about someone with it, and afterwards my husband said 'You know the writer must either have it himself or know someone close who does, because they got it so right).
And thats the trouble we all think we are experts....... I know I will write a book about life in say the army, I must know all about it as Ive seen it on the tv, right?

cheers
L

[Gary Anderson]

Quote

you really can't know until it happens to you how you would react.

I have to agree with that sentiment Elisabeth.

19 years ago when I had my train crash, such thoughts were topmost in my mind. I have to say, that as a result of injuries received in a crash a year ago, I have now got to face my worst nightmares coming true once again only this time, it affected my arm and the possibility that I may need to have an amputation done.

Once more, all the horrible thoughts are coming out and instead of SCI, I find myself on sites for amputees.

However, I have to agree that all of us watch programmes and like to think we are experts - I am like that with football. Come Monday, you would think I was playing in the match. I have a new motto - walk 6 months in my shoes and then decide if you want to have them permanently. Alternatively, when crap hits you, find a good friend like I have with one of the forum members. THis lady will pull me out of anything.

As someone else correctly said, perhaps we should look at things a bit differently and realise that not all scriptwriters are going to portray EXACTLY to the letter. We all thought and felt differently as ABs so why not now?

Life is too short. I was told the other day that when things dont go wrong and berak your heart so that you become bitter and give up; they go wrong to break you down and build you up again so you can be all that you were intended to me.

In my case that is certainly true. I am going all out to be the only one armed doctor in the health service!!

[Texaswheelz]

You would be suprised at the number of people close to you who feel the same way but would never express it. I had a best man and 4 groomsmen in my wedding, I was in 3 of theirs as a groomsman. 2 of them are twins and 1 is their older brother. Another was my roomate in college for 3 years, and another was a Division I football player at Oklahoma State Univ. He was 6'5 and 270 lbs of muscles, I tell you his size because I was the only one out of us who could wrestle with him and not get picked up and thrown around like a rag doll, the only one who could almost match his strength. I graduated with 4 of em, the older brother of the twins graduated 4 years ahead of us. We were all best of friends, went to college together, I rented a house with 1 of them for 3 years. They knew me better then anyone else. They met me after my injury, I had a wreck my Sophmore year in high school, we moved that summer and I started school with these guys my Jr. year. So none of them knew me before I was a para.

I'd been skiing with them(water and snow), partied with them(women, drinks and drugs), gone on vacation(spring break), camped at the lake, rode roller coasters....you name it and I had done it with these guys. They knew I was capable of just about anything I put my mind to, but still amazed them at some of the things I would do.

So now that you can some what see how close we all were and how well they knew me as a para and how able I was I can get to the rest of the story. When we were around 22-23 years old a guy from our home town, he had graduated with their older brother(my good friend also), was drinking and driving and had a car wreck. They were all over at my house in college when we found out that he was going to be a para with his break just a tad lower then mine. My first thought was, "damn that sucks, i'm going to have to go visit him when he comes around and let him know that not all is lost and he can still live and independant full life and still do tons of things." Before I could say that though one of my friends said"damn that sucks, I'd rather die then have that happen." The others agreed with him and they talked about how they wouldn't be able to handle it and dieing would be their choice also. I said nothing, as i was at a lost for words. Here I was setting on the couch, one of them was in my chair and the people I was closest to, that accepted me for who i was, that were like brothers had just said that they had rather be dead than to live like I did. To say it hurt then and still hurts now when I think about it would be an understatement.

I never said anything to them about it, I now wonder if they pitty me or if it is because they've just been around me so much and done so much with me that they saw me as a me and didn't see me as a para anymore. Who knows. But a tv episode or movie expressing those opinions don't mean much to me anymore. So don't be suprised if the people you know and they know you feel the same way, but also don't put any blame on them. If some one would have asked me the day before my wreck, hell a hour before it, I might have said the exact same thing.