42 replies to this topic

[4onthefloor]

Anyone have updates to this thread. I've had e.motion wheels for 3 years and they are great but the batteries SUCK. I've probably ordered five or six new pair and they are always going bad. Even when they aren't the batteries only last me until 3 or 4pm. I'd like to get the quickie extender and mount them on my TILite Evo. Anyone have thoughts on that. Does anyone know if NextMobility is still in business? I can't get them to return my emails.

Thanks,

Justin

[Bagpuss-wheels]

I mentioned my views on the Yamaha JW-II (aka Quickie Xtender)/Alber E-Motion debate in my post on the "Power-assist Wheels" thread:

Bagpuss-wheels, on Nov 14 2008, 12:29 AM, said:

Hi,

you need to have a good look at both the Alber E-Motion wheels AND the Yamaha JW-II wheels. To use the E-Motion wheels, you need very good hand strength and control to get the batteries in/out of the centre of the E-Motion wheels.

E-Motion battery (in the cantre of the wheel hub).

The battery on the Yamaha JW-IIs fits nicely behind one of the wheels into a receptor. The battery has a reasonable size handle on it that you can use to lift and install/remove it from behind the wheel.
Battery of the Yamaha JW-II behind the right wheel (on the now infamous PDQ wheelchair - ignore the chair, I'm only using this picture as it is the best view of the battery in its 'pod').

For me, someone who has very little hand strength or control, there was no choice - one place I went to get a quote put the E-Motion battery on both my hands on my lap and I couldn't lift my hands off my lap! I'd suggest you try both sorts and see which YOU, personally prefer.


I posted elsewhere on Wheelchair For Quads thread about the Yamaha JW-IIs I'm getting (along with new wheelchair) from DaVinci.

I've just submitted (and paid the deposit) on a pair of JW-IIs and a brand new ultra-lightweight, Titanium 'rigid box frame' wheelchair from DaVinci I'd done a hell of a lot of research and phoning companies to get info and, after a lot of hassles from other people (including being 'told' what my new wheelchair was 'going' to be like! Even to the extent of contradicting what I want/need. I'm a full-time wheelchair user and have been for four years now. I never went to a spinal injuries unit because I have 'deteriorated' into a wheelchair (which at the time I only used to use outside the house) and then had an 'incident' with a private hire car driver which has made the wheels permanent about four years back. I currently own a three year old NHS Voucher chair which was supposed to be a 'custom built' chair but was NEVER right to start with. It had taken them six months to get it to the stage I've had it ever since and I was told to either accept it or I'd have to go elsewhere which Wheelchair Services were rather loath for me to do. It's a Bromakin and I would never go back to them if you paid me - more on this later.


I had looked at Alber's "E-Motion" wheels and the Yamaha JW-IIs and compared and weighed up the pros and cons of both. (The Decon wheel "e-move", Otto-Bock "E-support", Meyra's name for them is the "Servomatic" and, in the USA, they are also known under the name "Quickie Xtender". They're all slight variations on the Yamaha JW-II!) I'd decided to get 'add-on' push-assist electric wheels as I am physically struggling to push myself in my current titanium-framed manual chair. As I have a permanently dislocated left shoulder (and my right can go if I sneeze, roll over a big enough bump, roll over in bed or even just pushing myself in the manual chair to name but a few things that have 'popped' it out. I ain't going to improve - my muscle weakness and pain are only increasing. I also did a bit of research into Joystick controlled powerchairs. I have hand and wrist problems because of an arthritis type condition as well as nerve damage. I can't safely control a joystick-controlled powerchair either. My back is becoming more and more of a problem and, because I've got scoliosis which is not correctable (I'm not allowed to have surgery because I have 'severe chronic asthma'/'brittle asthma'). The next dilemma was cost. Yes, technically a standard powerchair would have been cheaper, BUT, looking at the bigger picture, I can barely lift my ultra-lightweight titanium frame chair so there would be no chance of getting a 'standard' powerchair dismantled into my 'little' car. Dilemma no.2. I could either spend a larger amount on a new ultra-lightweight, titanium frame chair with 'add-on' powered push-assist wheels and still be able to dismantle it into my small car (though I may need a hoist to lift the power wheels in and then re-assemble with manual wheels to push round to get in if I am on my own) or spend smaller amount on a powerchair BUT have to find £30,000-£60,000ish for a 'Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle'. The third dilemma - do I stop pushing altogether and risk doing no exercise (which would not be great with the steroid tablets I have to take for my asthma to keep me breathing) and so put on weight as well as lose any muscle strength and tightness so dislocate my shoulders even more. There was no contest - push-assist won hands down! I'll worry about a 'WAV' when the time comes at some future point! I'd much rather keep some independence now. When the time comes, I could even get the Yamaha JWX-1 (the newer version of the joystick controlled version) and have the best of all three worlds as they fit the same attachment as the JW-IIs - the Alber E-Motion/E-Fix wheels both have different attachments.

I'd tried to lift one of the batteries of the Alber E-Motion wheels and could not lift it off my lap! (It had been placed in my hands as I couldn't get the battery out myself as my fingers couldn't grip the battery.) These are two of the reasons I decided against the E-Motion wheels. Also, the battery life is not usually as good (despite there being two batteries), I would almost certainly drop at least one of the batteries, at least once thus rendering the chair useless until I got a new battery. The other thing was, if I dropped it, I could visualise it rolling merrily down the hill I live on and only stopping when it hit a car or the kerb the other side of a busy road at the bottom! I had no choice but to reject Alber's E-Motion wheels. I'd never have been able to get the batteries in/out so would defeat the object of having them in the first place! The advantages of the Yamaha JW-IIs is that the battery has a HANDLE! (and a big enough one to get swollen hands into it too) Because the battery drops into a receptacle behind one of the wheels, you don't have to bend down as far as with the E-motion wheels either. The release button on the JW-II battery is a good idea as it can't get tipped out accidentally. I'll be honest here, the JW-IIs aren't perfect - one downside of the JW-IIs is the plug-in cable - it's a bit of a faff but MUCH less than the alternative of battling the batteries of the Alber E-Motion wheels.

I then had to find places which did the Yamaha/Otto-Bock/Meyra etc wheels. I decided that, as my current (voucher) chair doesn't fit me and leaves me in pain as it won't adjust any more, that the best thing is to get a new chair at the same time as my current one cannot be adapted. I had asked the OT at Wheelchair services about a new assessment as I'd deteriorated and my shoulders were dislocating frequently and, after a fall (in hospital) where I completely wrecked my left knee and the kneecap goes on a rather interesting large wander! I can no longer stand up at all and, unlike when I was assessed first time, I can no longer even take a few 'shuffles'. (I cannot get my left leg 'straight', never mind get the heel anywhere near the ground! In addition, the spinal damage and resulting problems mean that I don't have much control over the left leg and the scoliosis is only getting worse so that I wouldn't be able to balance anyway!) Also my asthma has been causing more problems in that I can have a severe asthma attack with no warning even if I'm doing nothing so, when I 'overdo' pushing myself, it's causing more and more serious attacks. I was told that, as I had only had my chair for two and a half years at that point, I had two and a half years until I was 'allowed' to be reassessed as my chair had "a lifespan of five years". I've also been told that Nottinghamshire don't support people getting push-assist wheels -they'd rather people have a 'cheaper' joystick controlled power chair, ONLY if they decide you need it! If you can push yourself even only a couple of metres, you don't qualify for powered assistance at all.

I've briefly tried both the Yamaha JW-IIs and the e-move at two different Naidex shows (essentially the same thing - just attached to different wheelchairs) and loved them. They were so easy! I first tried them at the Naidex exhibition in Brum. I even tried them on my road where I live when Andy from DaVinci brought them out for me to try. For the first time, I was able to get up my road (a not too insignificant hill) aided only by the Yamaha JW-II wheels as opposed to being pushed by a human being. After a lot of looking for suitable chairs to attach the powered wheels to, I came up with very few options. I want a rigid box-frame as, if I'm putting power in the back end, it will cause more stress on the wheelchair frame. As I want Frogs Legs, I don't want to have the chair twist or buckle. Whilst some companies are happy to fit power attachments to a 'cantilever'/'mono-frame' chair, I don't want to wear the chair out sooner than I have to. Also, if I need to use the manual wheels at an point, I'd rather not be losing pushing-power/forward momentum in frame 'wobble'. I'll summarise "Who, What and Why I didn't choose them":

* QUICKIE(Sunrise Medical) don't do a rigid box-frame except the GP/GPV/GPV Ti. These chairs are fine for some people but not if you're tall like me. The trouble is that they have not been updated for years (except with the addition of titanium in the same design - the design went out with the Ark!). This frame type wouldn't fit in my car and, even the titanium one is heavier than some custom built aluminium ones! Unfortunately, they 'dropped' the R2 which would have been the right sort of shape (though not titanium!) At Naidex, the Quickie rep gave me their prescription book so I could see if I could get what I need any other way but sadly not. Quickie have jumped on the 'cantilever is best as you see less of the frame and more of the person' (as a sickening advert claimed a few years back.) As I've said, I don't want frame 'wobble' and to weaken the frame through constant vibrations.)

* PDQ: JW-II + PDQ's 'Liberator' chair: Pushy sales people "You WANT one of these [powertrikes]", PDQ's reputation and the Liberator chair wouldn't adjust to my needs and was a 'tube'/'mono-tube' frame so would have given more 'frame-wobble' than I want. Also, when I'd previously booked an appointment, the guy didn't bother to let me (or them) know he wasn't gonna turn up.

* BROMAKIN: JW-II + Bromakin's 'Street Classic Titanium' (rigid box-frame) chair: They hadn't got my first chair (my voucher chair) right but I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt! I was 'TOLD' I "MUST have SOLID tyres on the JW-II wheels, even though I want Frogs Legs on the front end because the slightest knock aggravates the agony from the back. When I got the quote, SEVERAL of the things I'd asked for were either missing, wrong or the opposite of what I wanted! For a 'custom-built chair', I was not impressed at being asked to pay £30 to have an almost horizontal footplate!?! Also, because I've had major problems with their 'new' back straps (just velcro so the top straps don't give support, they pull the D-rings round so it gets looser than I need it - I asked for them to be like the previous ones which someone I know had on her chair which were webbing&velcro sown together so it gave strength), they wanted £100 EXTRA to sew webbing on two straps and put the D-rings on the opposite side! (Because of the scoliosis, I need the D-rings on the right of my back as I put more pressure through the left and have ended up with sores from D-rings before!) I was TOLD that "you've got to have solid tyres on the JW-II" (will explain in a mo.) Needless to say, I ain't going back to Bromakin either! To avoid totally cluttering this up, read my views of Bromakin and the 'heap' ( ) of a chair I got from them and all the errors they made at: USA Tech Guide - Bromakin Classic TI - my review
I HATE my Bromakin (NHS Voucher) chair.

* STEERING DEVELOPMENTS: JW-II + whatever chair I could get myself that would suit my needs (RGK/INVACARE Top End Terminator Titanium etc.): The guy who came OBVIOUSLY didn't understand the top end of the 'active user' wheelchair range as he said that a 'folding' frame was the same as a 'cantilever' frame. He pushed for me to agree to have either their 'top-box' with a folding frame (despite my explanation as to why I didn't want it - frame 'wobble'/instability of my little car if I had a 'top-box' as I've got a short, skinny (but tall) mini-MPV. He then tried to insist I should buy their hoist (even though it wouldn't fit or do what I needed). I felt he needed a LOT of reading up on wheelchairs - a wheelchair is not just something that concertinas and folds. OK, some people get on better with a folding frame (particularly if a 'top-box' would suit them) but not me! I haven't contacted them back.

* RGK: (JW-IIs fitted somewhere else as RGK only do the E-motion wheels) + RGK MAXIMA custom built chair: I had to phone them a several times (as I never got a call back) to actually ask a boss the question "would fitting the JW-IIs invalidate their frame warrantee?" (answer finally came back "no", "not if it's done by them (which would invalidate the JW-IIs warrantee (as I told them) but then I was told it would be fine if somewhere like Steering Developments/DaVinci fitted them.) I then was told to wait for the rep to call - he did but at a time I'd SPECIFICALLY said NOT to call! I politely asked him to call back another time but, as yet (three months on), he hasn't! Whilst I'd have got a 'true' custom built chair from them, I wondered, if this is how difficult it is for a potential customer to get answers/assistance, what would happen if I really needed something or had a major problem with my chair - would I still be ignored?!? NOT the way to treat a serious potential customer.

* CYCLONE: (JW-IIs fitted by a third party - Cyclone ONLY do the E-Motion wheels) + ???: Cyclone only do one rigid box-frame chair - the rest are 'cantilever' frames BUT, it's only "usually done in aluminium. I suppose we may be able to do a one-off in titanium" said the chap I spoke with. They fit the E-motion wheels to their cantilever frames - reasons why I don't want a cantilever frame are the same.

* GERALD SIMONDS HEALTHCARE: (JW-IIs fitted by a third party - they "ONLY do the E-Motion wheels and wouldn't want to sell 'inferior' products. [They] shouldn't be expected to sell everything." Said the woman who answered the phone the second time I called them after I didn't get all the info I'd asked for. I had asked for the first woman I spoke to by name and the second woman (at this point) didn't say she wasn't the first woman. I explained why the E-motion wheels were NOT superior for some people as, if you cannot manage the batteries, it's NOT superior but inferior! If you can't lift the batteries, you can't make use of the E-Motion wheels! I also was told that I "couldn't possibly need a greater than 15 inch deep seat as someone [she] knew who was 6ft something tall only needed a 15inch deep seat so couldn't possibly need an 18.5 inch deep seat"!! OK, why do I sit on an 18.5 inch cushion which does not touch the back of my knee!


This is why I AM going to DaVinci - they couldn't be more helpful. I'm having Schwalbe Marathon tyres on my standard manual wheels and the Yamaha JW-IIs and Frogs Legs on the front. I'm having the Frogs for suspension so that I don't upend myself into the 'turtle' position (face down) when going at speed. I'm having the coated rims as I could do with the most help because of my dislocated/dislocating shoulders and better grip will help. I really can't wait for my new DaVinci wheelchair to arrive - it will mean that I can get a loaf of bread from the local shops on my own for the first time in years without having to go in the car, especially as I can't drive myself at the moment. Have a think about a rigid frame wheelchair - you will find that the weight will not be as much as a folding frame chair and you may not even need to consider push-assist unless you want to. Rigid frame chairs don't, as I've said suffer from as much frame wobble so you don't lose as much of your 'push' in frame-wobble, more of your push goes into moving!

Just my 2p worth.

Best wishes,

Cat

Bieke, on Mar 3 2008, 11:12 AM, said:

Does anyone know iff the Extenders will fit on a Quickie Ti? And on a Kusschall K4? Trying to decide whether I should buy the Extenders or the E-motions. Any recommendations? Thanks!

The Quickie Xtenders can fit on the Quickie Ti but the Sunrise Medical (USA) website says that it has to be the 'Built-4-me' Quickie Ti chair if you want them on a Quickie Ti, However, IF you contact DaVinci in the UK, you should be able to find out if the Yamaha JW-II (essentially the same as the Quickie Xtender) can be retro-fitted to your chair. (Alternatively, Otto Bock will fit the 'E-Support' to chairs from other companies if they can, providing you package and send your chair to them in Germany.)


Best wishes,
Cat

PS
One of the advantages of the Yamaha JW-IIs (specifically the Yamaha variety) is that they are supposed to use the same fixtures as the JWX-Is (the newer joystick control version) which is worth considering if you may need the additional option of joystick control in the future (be it Manual/push-assist/joystick or just powered wheels alone - if your chair fits you - adding joystick controlled power wheels may be better/more cost effective than purchasing a powerchair (in the shorter term at least), especially if you cannot afford both a powerchair and a 'Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle' so the the Push-assist Yamaha JW-IIs are definitely worth considering over the Alber E-Motion for this reason alone!)

PPS
I don't know what the 'new' 'e-motion M15' are like - from the pictures and user manual though, it looks as difficult as the 'older' style 'M10/12.'.

If you are insistent upon the E-motion wheels, there is a compatability list on their website at: http://www.alber.de/...halterungen.php

Edited by Bagpuss-wheels, 28 November 2008 - 01:01 AM.

[EmHope]

IS THE IGLIDE BEING MADE AGAIN??????

ANYONE KNOW?????

[wriggley]

as far as i know its now being called the "Tail Wind" and its made by next mobility but im sure someone else can clarify this as im not entirely sure

[jimwa]

Go to http://www.nextmobil...om/tailwind.php I spoke with them but never received any info or follow up.

Jim

[mrmr]

4onthefloor, on Nov 16 2008, 01:56 AM, said:

Anyone have updates to this thread. I've had e.motion wheels for 3 years and they are great but the batteries SUCK. I've probably ordered five or six new pair and they are always going bad. Even when they aren't the batteries only last me until 3 or 4pm. I'd like to get the quickie extender and mount them on my TILite Evo. Anyone have thoughts on that. Does anyone know if NextMobility is still in business? I can't get them to return my emails.

Thanks,

Justin

hi. i feel your pain. i had the same issues,cotacted my provider and found out alber went to a new battery manufactuer.
they switched from saft to panasonic. the panasonic batteries are junk. they are now in the process of switching back.on the inside of the battery should be a serial number.they should be able to tell who and when they were manufavtured.

let me know
jim

[mrmr]

Bagpuss-wheels, on Nov 27 2008, 04:50 PM, said:

I mentioned my views on the Yamaha JW-II (aka Quickie Xtender)/Alber E-Motion debate in my post on the "Power-assist Wheels" thread:

Bagpuss-wheels, on Nov 14 2008, 12:29 AM, said:

Hi,

you need to have a good look at both the Alber E-Motion wheels AND the Yamaha JW-II wheels. To use the E-Motion wheels, you need very good hand strength and control to get the batteries in/out of the centre of the E-Motion wheels.

E-Motion battery (in the cantre of the wheel hub).

The battery on the Yamaha JW-IIs fits nicely behind one of the wheels into a receptor. The battery has a reasonable size handle on it that you can use to lift and install/remove it from behind the wheel.
Battery of the Yamaha JW-II behind the right wheel (on the now infamous PDQ wheelchair - ignore the chair, I'm only using this picture as it is the best view of the battery in its 'pod').

For me, someone who has very little hand strength or control, there was no choice - one place I went to get a quote put the E-Motion battery on both my hands on my lap and I couldn't lift my hands off my lap! I'd suggest you try both sorts and see which YOU, personally prefer.


I posted elsewhere on Wheelchair For Quads thread about the Yamaha JW-IIs I'm getting (along with new wheelchair) from DaVinci.

I've just submitted (and paid the deposit) on a pair of JW-IIs and a brand new ultra-lightweight, Titanium 'rigid box frame' wheelchair from DaVinci I'd done a hell of a lot of research and phoning companies to get info and, after a lot of hassles from other people (including being 'told' what my new wheelchair was 'going' to be like! Even to the extent of contradicting what I want/need. I'm a full-time wheelchair user and have been for four years now. I never went to a spinal injuries unit because I have 'deteriorated' into a wheelchair (which at the time I only used to use outside the house) and then had an 'incident' with a private hire car driver which has made the wheels permanent about four years back. I currently own a three year old NHS Voucher chair which was supposed to be a 'custom built' chair but was NEVER right to start with. It had taken them six months to get it to the stage I've had it ever since and I was told to either accept it or I'd have to go elsewhere which Wheelchair Services were rather loath for me to do. It's a Bromakin and I would never go back to them if you paid me - more on this later.


I had looked at Alber's "E-Motion" wheels and the Yamaha JW-IIs and compared and weighed up the pros and cons of both. (The Decon wheel "e-move", Otto-Bock "E-support", Meyra's name for them is the "Servomatic" and, in the USA, they are also known under the name "Quickie Xtender". They're all slight variations on the Yamaha JW-II!) I'd decided to get 'add-on' push-assist electric wheels as I am physically struggling to push myself in my current titanium-framed manual chair. As I have a permanently dislocated left shoulder (and my right can go if I sneeze, roll over a big enough bump, roll over in bed or even just pushing myself in the manual chair to name but a few things that have 'popped' it out. I ain't going to improve - my muscle weakness and pain are only increasing. I also did a bit of research into Joystick controlled powerchairs. I have hand and wrist problems because of an arthritis type condition as well as nerve damage. I can't safely control a joystick-controlled powerchair either. My back is becoming more and more of a problem and, because I've got scoliosis which is not correctable (I'm not allowed to have surgery because I have 'severe chronic asthma'/'brittle asthma'). The next dilemma was cost. Yes, technically a standard powerchair would have been cheaper, BUT, looking at the bigger picture, I can barely lift my ultra-lightweight titanium frame chair so there would be no chance of getting a 'standard' powerchair dismantled into my 'little' car. Dilemma no.2. I could either spend a larger amount on a new ultra-lightweight, titanium frame chair with 'add-on' powered push-assist wheels and still be able to dismantle it into my small car (though I may need a hoist to lift the power wheels in and then re-assemble with manual wheels to push round to get in if I am on my own) or spend smaller amount on a powerchair BUT have to find £30,000-£60,000ish for a 'Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle'. The third dilemma - do I stop pushing altogether and risk doing no exercise (which would not be great with the steroid tablets I have to take for my asthma to keep me breathing) and so put on weight as well as lose any muscle strength and tightness so dislocate my shoulders even more. There was no contest - push-assist won hands down! I'll worry about a 'WAV' when the time comes at some future point! I'd much rather keep some independence now. When the time comes, I could even get the Yamaha JWX-1 (the newer version of the joystick controlled version) and have the best of all three worlds as they fit the same attachment as the JW-IIs - the Alber E-Motion/E-Fix wheels both have different attachments.

I'd tried to lift one of the batteries of the Alber E-Motion wheels and could not lift it off my lap! (It had been placed in my hands as I couldn't get the battery out myself as my fingers couldn't grip the battery.) These are two of the reasons I decided against the E-Motion wheels. Also, the battery life is not usually as good (despite there being two batteries), I would almost certainly drop at least one of the batteries, at least once thus rendering the chair useless until I got a new battery. The other thing was, if I dropped it, I could visualise it rolling merrily down the hill I live on and only stopping when it hit a car or the kerb the other side of a busy road at the bottom! I had no choice but to reject Alber's E-Motion wheels. I'd never have been able to get the batteries in/out so would defeat the object of having them in the first place! The advantages of the Yamaha JW-IIs is that the battery has a HANDLE! (and a big enough one to get swollen hands into it too) Because the battery drops into a receptacle behind one of the wheels, you don't have to bend down as far as with the E-motion wheels either. The release button on the JW-II battery is a good idea as it can't get tipped out accidentally. I'll be honest here, the JW-IIs aren't perfect - one downside of the JW-IIs is the plug-in cable - it's a bit of a faff but MUCH less than the alternative of battling the batteries of the Alber E-Motion wheels.

I then had to find places which did the Yamaha/Otto-Bock/Meyra etc wheels. I decided that, as my current (voucher) chair doesn't fit me and leaves me in pain as it won't adjust any more, that the best thing is to get a new chair at the same time as my current one cannot be adapted. I had asked the OT at Wheelchair services about a new assessment as I'd deteriorated and my shoulders were dislocating frequently and, after a fall (in hospital) where I completely wrecked my left knee and the kneecap goes on a rather interesting large wander! I can no longer stand up at all and, unlike when I was assessed first time, I can no longer even take a few 'shuffles'. (I cannot get my left leg 'straight', never mind get the heel anywhere near the ground! In addition, the spinal damage and resulting problems mean that I don't have much control over the left leg and the scoliosis is only getting worse so that I wouldn't be able to balance anyway!) Also my asthma has been causing more problems in that I can have a severe asthma attack with no warning even if I'm doing nothing so, when I 'overdo' pushing myself, it's causing more and more serious attacks. I was told that, as I had only had my chair for two and a half years at that point, I had two and a half years until I was 'allowed' to be reassessed as my chair had "a lifespan of five years". I've also been told that Nottinghamshire don't support people getting push-assist wheels -they'd rather people have a 'cheaper' joystick controlled power chair, ONLY if they decide you need it! If you can push yourself even only a couple of metres, you don't qualify for powered assistance at all.

I've briefly tried both the Yamaha JW-IIs and the e-move at two different Naidex shows (essentially the same thing - just attached to different wheelchairs) and loved them. They were so easy! I first tried them at the Naidex exhibition in Brum. I even tried them on my road where I live when Andy from DaVinci brought them out for me to try. For the first time, I was able to get up my road (a not too insignificant hill) aided only by the Yamaha JW-II wheels as opposed to being pushed by a human being. After a lot of looking for suitable chairs to attach the powered wheels to, I came up with very few options. I want a rigid box-frame as, if I'm putting power in the back end, it will cause more stress on the wheelchair frame. As I want Frogs Legs, I don't want to have the chair twist or buckle. Whilst some companies are happy to fit power attachments to a 'cantilever'/'mono-frame' chair, I don't want to wear the chair out sooner than I have to. Also, if I need to use the manual wheels at an point, I'd rather not be losing pushing-power/forward momentum in frame 'wobble'. I'll summarise "Who, What and Why I didn't choose them":

* QUICKIE(Sunrise Medical) don't do a rigid box-frame except the GP/GPV/GPV Ti. These chairs are fine for some people but not if you're tall like me. The trouble is that they have not been updated for years (except with the addition of titanium in the same design - the design went out with the Ark!). This frame type wouldn't fit in my car and, even the titanium one is heavier than some custom built aluminium ones! Unfortunately, they 'dropped' the R2 which would have been the right sort of shape (though not titanium!) At Naidex, the Quickie rep gave me their prescription book so I could see if I could get what I need any other way but sadly not. Quickie have jumped on the 'cantilever is best as you see less of the frame and more of the person' (as a sickening advert claimed a few years back.) As I've said, I don't want frame 'wobble' and to weaken the frame through constant vibrations.)

* PDQ: JW-II + PDQ's 'Liberator' chair: Pushy sales people "You WANT one of these [powertrikes]", PDQ's reputation and the Liberator chair wouldn't adjust to my needs and was a 'tube'/'mono-tube' frame so would have given more 'frame-wobble' than I want. Also, when I'd previously booked an appointment, the guy didn't bother to let me (or them) know he wasn't gonna turn up.

* BROMAKIN: JW-II + Bromakin's 'Street Classic Titanium' (rigid box-frame) chair: They hadn't got my first chair (my voucher chair) right but I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt! I was 'TOLD' I "MUST have SOLID tyres on the JW-II wheels, even though I want Frogs Legs on the front end because the slightest knock aggravates the agony from the back. When I got the quote, SEVERAL of the things I'd asked for were either missing, wrong or the opposite of what I wanted! For a 'custom-built chair', I was not impressed at being asked to pay £30 to have an almost horizontal footplate!?! Also, because I've had major problems with their 'new' back straps (just velcro so the top straps don't give support, they pull the D-rings round so it gets looser than I need it - I asked for them to be like the previous ones which someone I know had on her chair which were webbing&velcro sown together so it gave strength), they wanted £100 EXTRA to sew webbing on two straps and put the D-rings on the opposite side! (Because of the scoliosis, I need the D-rings on the right of my back as I put more pressure through the left and have ended up with sores from D-rings before!) I was TOLD that "you've got to have solid tyres on the JW-II" (will explain in a mo.) Needless to say, I ain't going back to Bromakin either! To avoid totally cluttering this up, read my views of Bromakin and the 'heap' ( ) of a chair I got from them and all the errors they made at: USA Tech Guide - Bromakin Classic TI - my review
I HATE my Bromakin (NHS Voucher) chair.

* STEERING DEVELOPMENTS: JW-II + whatever chair I could get myself that would suit my needs (RGK/INVACARE Top End Terminator Titanium etc.): The guy who came OBVIOUSLY didn't understand the top end of the 'active user' wheelchair range as he said that a 'folding' frame was the same as a 'cantilever' frame. He pushed for me to agree to have either their 'top-box' with a folding frame (despite my explanation as to why I didn't want it - frame 'wobble'/instability of my little car if I had a 'top-box' as I've got a short, skinny (but tall) mini-MPV. He then tried to insist I should buy their hoist (even though it wouldn't fit or do what I needed). I felt he needed a LOT of reading up on wheelchairs - a wheelchair is not just something that concertinas and folds. OK, some people get on better with a folding frame (particularly if a 'top-box' would suit them) but not me! I haven't contacted them back.

* RGK: (JW-IIs fitted somewhere else as RGK only do the E-motion wheels) + RGK MAXIMA custom built chair: I had to phone them a several times (as I never got a call back) to actually ask a boss the question "would fitting the JW-IIs invalidate their frame warrantee?" (answer finally came back "no", "not if it's done by them (which would invalidate the JW-IIs warrantee (as I told them) but then I was told it would be fine if somewhere like Steering Developments/DaVinci fitted them.) I then was told to wait for the rep to call - he did but at a time I'd SPECIFICALLY said NOT to call! I politely asked him to call back another time but, as yet (three months on), he hasn't! Whilst I'd have got a 'true' custom built chair from them, I wondered, if this is how difficult it is for a potential customer to get answers/assistance, what would happen if I really needed something or had a major problem with my chair - would I still be ignored?!? NOT the way to treat a serious potential customer.

* CYCLONE: (JW-IIs fitted by a third party - Cyclone ONLY do the E-Motion wheels) + ???: Cyclone only do one rigid box-frame chair - the rest are 'cantilever' frames BUT, it's only "usually done in aluminium. I suppose we may be able to do a one-off in titanium" said the chap I spoke with. They fit the E-motion wheels to their cantilever frames - reasons why I don't want a cantilever frame are the same.

* GERALD SIMONDS HEALTHCARE: (JW-IIs fitted by a third party - they "ONLY do the E-Motion wheels and wouldn't want to sell 'inferior' products. [They] shouldn't be expected to sell everything." Said the woman who answered the phone the second time I called them after I didn't get all the info I'd asked for. I had asked for the first woman I spoke to by name and the second woman (at this point) didn't say she wasn't the first woman. I explained why the E-motion wheels were NOT superior for some people as, if you cannot manage the batteries, it's NOT superior but inferior! If you can't lift the batteries, you can't make use of the E-Motion wheels! I also was told that I "couldn't possibly need a greater than 15 inch deep seat as someone [she] knew who was 6ft something tall only needed a 15inch deep seat so couldn't possibly need an 18.5 inch deep seat"!! OK, why do I sit on an 18.5 inch cushion which does not touch the back of my knee!


This is why I AM going to DaVinci - they couldn't be more helpful. I'm having Schwalbe Marathon tyres on my standard manual wheels and the Yamaha JW-IIs and Frogs Legs on the front. I'm having the Frogs for suspension so that I don't upend myself into the 'turtle' position (face down) when going at speed. I'm having the coated rims as I could do with the most help because of my dislocated/dislocating shoulders and better grip will help. I really can't wait for my new DaVinci wheelchair to arrive - it will mean that I can get a loaf of bread from the local shops on my own for the first time in years without having to go in the car, especially as I can't drive myself at the moment. Have a think about a rigid frame wheelchair - you will find that the weight will not be as much as a folding frame chair and you may not even need to consider push-assist unless you want to. Rigid frame chairs don't, as I've said suffer from as much frame wobble so you don't lose as much of your 'push' in frame-wobble, more of your push goes into moving!

Just my 2p worth.

Best wishes,

Cat

Bieke, on Mar 3 2008, 11:12 AM, said:

Does anyone know iff the Extenders will fit on a Quickie Ti? And on a Kusschall K4? Trying to decide whether I should buy the Extenders or the E-motions. Any recommendations? Thanks!

The Quickie Xtenders can fit on the Quickie Ti but the Sunrise Medical (USA) website says that it has to be the 'Built-4-me' Quickie Ti chair if you want them on a Quickie Ti, However, IF you contact DaVinci in the UK, you should be able to find out if the Yamaha JW-II (essentially the same as the Quickie Xtender) can be retro-fitted to your chair. (Alternatively, Otto Bock will fit the 'E-Support' to chairs from other companies if they can, providing you package and send your chair to them in Germany.)


Best wishes,
Cat

PS
One of the advantages of the Yamaha JW-IIs (specifically the Yamaha variety) is that they are supposed to use the same fixtures as the JWX-Is (the newer joystick control version) which is worth considering if you may need the additional option of joystick control in the future (be it Manual/push-assist/joystick or just powered wheels alone - if your chair fits you - adding joystick controlled power wheels may be better/more cost effective than purchasing a powerchair (in the shorter term at least), especially if you cannot afford both a powerchair and a 'Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle' so the the Push-assist Yamaha JW-IIs are definitely worth considering over the Alber E-Motion for this reason alone!)

PPS
I don't know what the 'new' 'e-motion M15' are like - from the pictures and user manual though, it looks as difficult as the 'older' style 'M10/12.'.

If you are insistent upon the E-motion wheels, there is a compatability list on their website at: http://www.alber.de/...halterungen.php

Ihave the M15 wheels. They are fantastic so far. The battery life is 2-3 x longer then M12. You never have to take the batteries out unless you trevel on an airplane. Unlike M12 system you no longer have to take the battery out to remove the wheel and the lithium/ion battery lasts so long you may only have to charge them once every 2 days. The remote control enables me to do everything without having to lean over.
Regards, Jim

[mal's niece]

Thanks heaps for such great review of the options for power assist wheels. I've passed this on to the Physios that deal with this equipment and all my questions about power assist wheels...they have also found it helpful!

[cosmosmallpiece]

I had a pair of E-Motion wheels and I found them crap,
in two years I had 4 new wheels and 4 batteries,
the company they came from are a rip off company,
I now have Yamaha JW1 which I use manualy or by flicking a switch they are in electric mode and I use a joystick leaving one hand free,
the only problem where I live the town centre is cobbled and I keeping braking spokes otherwise they are good,
they are the same price as E-Motion about
£3,000 not cheap but most company who disability products will rip you off.

[Bagpuss-wheels]

Hey Folks,

Have thought of another advantage of the Yamaha JW-IIs over either the old or the new E-Motion wheels - with the Yamaha Wheels, you can leave the JW-II wheels in the car and put manual wheels on the frame (providing you've got the wheels adequately insured!) and take the battery in to recharge it without having to battle with the resistance of 'non-powered' 'powered wheels'. It would also be easier to swap the battery for a spare if it's gone flat - something that must be a complete hassle with the new E-Motion wheels!


Yamaha JW-II battery shown beside the rear wheel - showing release button and handle to lift it with.


Yamaha JW-II - you can clearly see the battery through the rear wheel - (the release button is yellow on this chair). Because of it's location and the handle to lift it by, this battery is easy to remove when you need to remove it.


Centre of new E-Motion (M15) wheel - the battery remains attached under the hub cover. There is now a release button which can be pressed (the lighter coloured centre) without the battery having to be removed first.


Battery cover for the new E-Motion (M15) wheels (which can be removed but remains attached, covering the battery all the time (unless the battery needs to be rmoved for some reason).)


This is the older style (M11/M12) E-motion battery which needs removing before the release pin (which is situated behind the battery) can be operated. The batteries are VERY heavy and require both strength and dexterity to remove the batteries safely. (You also need good balance to be able to bend down far enough without falling over.)


Best wishes,

Cat

>^..^<

Edited by Bagpuss-wheels, 07 February 2009 - 08:58 PM.

[jimwa]

To those who use extender wheels: I have not had luck getting one rebuilt. I know it should not be that difficult. what do you do for batteries - they are so expensive.

[Kimu]

hey guys
i use the emotion m15's (http://www.quickie-w...eels-27183.html) and i thrash them, i live in country western australia, the thing i love is how long the battery lasts, iwould be lost without them.

[Modeus]

I have the m15's on my ZRA chair and love em, i demo'd the older style with removable batteries but the new liON batteries seem to go forever.