21 replies to this topic

[sarah.design.hellewell]

Hi,

just looking at a new wheelchair and wanted some feedback generally about wheelchairs, I've been to visit organisations such as Disabilty North and Middlesborough Spinal Cord Injury Unit, but I want to get the broadest range of info I can get.

With manual wheelchairs, what are the general downfalls you find? Do you often modify your own chair to suit your individual needs with specialised cushions, wheels etc to solve problems?
Do you have chairs for different applications?
Do you have a favourite brand of wheelchair - why is it you favourite?

Hope someone can give me some feedback - these are just a few of the areas Im exploring before I take up the task of designing this wheelchair. It is very important for me to talk to users, and get some honest thoughts on wheelchair design at the moment.

Thanks for reading this message

Hope to hear from someone

[Lucydog]

Disability North................ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH

[oldwheelz]

Seems to me there is a lot of room for improvement in wheelchairs, My biggest grip is the hand rims, Why would they make something that you are trying to grasp so slippery, Sure you can fix it but why build it that way?

[edlee]

I've only been at this for a few years, so my experience is not as extensive as many here.

For me, the biggest priority would be weight.

I also feel that ease of transfering in and out of the chair is important , but I don't know if that can be improved upon through design changes.

Placement and style of brakes can influence how easily we can roll,( in the sense that our hands aren't getting hung up in them when in a hurry) As you read, above, the hand rims are often too slick to get the speed we want, so our hands will be on the tire in situations where a lot of effort is required.

Adjustability would be nice as long as it didn't weaken the chair in any great way.

Ability to increase or decrease the camber of the wheels might be nice.

I hope that something of this will be useful. I hope you will keep us informed as to how your work progresses.

Good luck with that.
ed

[sarah.design.hellewell]

Thanks for all those comments, Im not really allowed to say what the main idea is behind the chair we are designing but when it is finished I hope you guys like what we come up with.

Lol Guess you dont like disability north?!

We are trying to get together a focus group up here in Newcastle, we would present the idea as a working prototype and just try and get some feedback, if anybody is interested just let me know.

The design is in the early stages at the moment so any ideas are more than welcome
=]

Sarah

[hockeydahc]

I'm not sure any improvements or many can be made. Sure some chairs are heavier than others. some are set to adjust, while others are not. I've seen ultralight fixed frame chairs, and theres nothign to change, what's there is structure. There are separate sports chairs with more angle so you don't bang up your everyday chair. and hideaway wheel locks so you don't pinch your finger. thats excrutiating!

I've been told that theres "generations" of chairs. you typically start with an adjustable one and fine tune it as you go. once you're done adjusting a few years down the road, you know what works for you and most look into a new chair without all the extra weight of the adjustable equipment. I ordered a new chair and dropped half the chair weight! I had not really been ready I guess, because theres things I got on the new chair that I certianly know better now, and in a few years I'll upgrade probably a final time. I don;t use the chair often, so this one will last awhile.



I agree with the rims. but wonder how that can be done. would you really want rough texture( I think like sandpaper) rubbing your hands raw? and any imprinted texture may go away when the hollow metal tube is bent into a circle. i grip the tire anyway, the rims aren't big enough to grip. however I do need to change wheel lock types. If I jam my finger and bend back my thumbnail just one more time.....
if you're looking for speed, get some of the gloves. First thing I received at the rehab center was a pair of fingerless, black leather gloves. I only used them a week but they add grip for sure!!

as I see it, the modern wheelchair is as condensed and bug free as it's going to get, but I'd love to see what ideas are brought up.

[Tinbasher]

Instead of designing a chair with wheels why not try asking the question "If people had wheels what would it look like"?

I do think the pretty much all of the improvements in geometry and materials have been done. The next big thing would be to get the benefits of high spec high cost chair to the low income user.

Tom

[edlee]

I agree with Tom. I had forgotten about price. That would surely be the single greatest improvement that could be made, low cost.

But if the profits are low there won't be much interest in building them.
ed

[hockeydahc]

just to play devil's advocate,

The wheelchairs are substitute legs so-to-speak. What price would you put on your legs? would you want cheap legs or top dollar means of mobility? I'm not sure we should have to pay for them ourselves... lets fix THAT aspect.


how about hover chairs?! less weight, wouldn't have the width of wheels... or spinal grafted arms(legs) like in Spiderman that attach where you have cord left. If we're going to rethink things, lets go all out!!

ok i get a little outside the box sometimes.

[sarah.design.hellewell]

Haha hockeydahc, with that kind of forward thinking, i think we need to employ you!

Im getting some pretty good ideas from the suggestions.

went to middlesborough spinal cord injury unit yesterday - one of the physios used inner tubes to wrap round the push rails for grip - looked a bit ropey but seemed a good idea.

[wheeliebear75]

They do have a solution for slippery rims......it's called a plastic coating. Unfortunately it also picks up dirt and grinds that into your hands faster than the regular kind of rims. I personally like Quickie. Main reason......it was started by a wheelchair user (originally). I do NOT like the name Invacare......just a pet peeve of mine. The other thing for me is that Quickie has a store in Arizona and since I am in California parts are not too long in shipping but still no sales tax.

Light weight is a definite. We're essentially walking with our arms, which we weren't set up for anatomically speaking. The lighter your chair the less strain you put on rotator cuff, and other parts we tend to overuse. I'm not sure about anyone else......I hate each foot in it's own sling (the swing away kind), I so prefer one single foot plate. In a skirt or dress especially (much easier to keep knees together and sit like a lady). Is it easy to get into a car trunk? If you have to be in a certain position make sure that is addressed. I can't sit unless my back is at 45degrees to my thighs or less (more tucked is fine recline is a NO NO). And yeah like others have said how easy is it to transfer out of? If it is too hard to get in and out of you are doing yourself more harm than good with that chair.

Happy chair shopping.

[wheeliebear75]

hockeydahc, on Aug 1 2007, 02:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure any improvements or many can be made. Sure some chairs are heavier than others. some are set to adjust, while others are not. I've seen ultralight fixed frame chairs, and theres nothign to change, what's there is structure. There are separate sports chairs with more angle so you don't bang up your everyday chair. and hideaway wheel locks so you don't pinch your finger. thats excrutiating!

I've been told that theres "generations" of chairs. you typically start with an adjustable one and fine tune it as you go. once you're done adjusting a few years down the road, you know what works for you and most look into a new chair without all the extra weight of the adjustable equipment. I ordered a new chair and dropped half the chair weight! I had not really been ready I guess, because theres things I got on the new chair that I certianly know better now, and in a few years I'll upgrade probably a final time. I don;t use the chair often, so this one will last awhile.



I agree with the rims. but wonder how that can be done. would you really want rough texture( I think like sandpaper) rubbing your hands raw? and any imprinted texture may go away when the hollow metal tube is bent into a circle. i grip the tire anyway, the rims aren't big enough to grip. however I do need to change wheel lock types. If I jam my finger and bend back my thumbnail just one more time.....
if you're looking for speed, get some of the gloves. First thing I received at the rehab center was a pair of fingerless, black leather gloves. I only used them a week but they add grip for sure!!

as I see it, the modern wheelchair is as condensed and bug free as it's going to get, but I'd love to see what ideas are brought up.

Hey for not munching your fingers on the locks have you thought of having pull to lock? You push them away to free the wheel and towards the wheel to engage them. I have mine like that and now wouldn't want my brakes any other way.

[sarah.design.hellewell]

yeah i like that idea of having a kind of secure "hidden" pocket. Things like that are so simple but no one ever thinks to add them. Ive seen saddle bags and bags which fit under the chair, but nothing very accessible.

Have any of you guys seen these standing chairs - they are manual but will rise so that you stood? what do you think of these? ive heard mixed thoughts, like they are ok but your are strapped in, and that they are ok as a secondary chair but not for everyday use.

[jakhep]

I have a Levo Standing Chair which i use mainly around the house, it can be used as an outdoor chair but i seldom use it that way, i love the ease with which i can stand in it any time i want and on my own, as you say you are strapped into it but only for standing, but its main use is for standing only i wouldnt recommend it as an everyday chair as it is too heavy for that.

[sarah.design.hellewell]

Yeah Ive heard of the Levo chairs - they seem to be the best standing manual chairs around - pitty they arent light enough for everyday use.
Are there any ristrictions with the standing chairs? Do you have to have a specific injury height, or can they be used by everyone because of the straps?

[jakhep]

Levo Have a few different models but im sure the one i use Which is the LAE could be used by most disabilities, but dont quote me on that, if someone could design a chair like the Quickie Titanium to enable standing up im sure it would be a great success but i dont think thats practicable due to the weight needed in the chair to enable standing.

[Lucydog]

Hi Sarah

Dont worry about my comment about Disabilty North........... anyway Id like to see a chair where you can chnge the camber of the wheels easily. What i mean is when you buy a chair they all say you can do this, but what they really mean is you have to buy a new camber bar and fit it. id like to be able to switch so if you were out in the country you caould say have 8 degrees but then when you get back home switch back to maybe 2 degrees. Just an idea.

As Im up here in the north Im happy to meet up and chat. Im no expert but if you are interested let me know.

cheers
L

[sarah.design.hellewell]

Hi L

Yeah meeting up for a chat would be great. Where abouts are you based? We are at the Centre For Design Research at Northumbria University.
Like i said Ive been able to talk to physios and OT's but no one with first hand experience, it would be a great opportunity.

[hockeydahc]

wheeliebear75, on Aug 2 2007, 06:31 AM, said:

hockeydahc, on Aug 1 2007, 02:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure any improvements or many can be made. Sure some chairs are heavier than others. some are set to adjust, while others are not. I've seen ultralight fixed frame chairs, and theres nothign to change, what's there is structure. There are separate sports chairs with more angle so you don't bang up your everyday chair. and hideaway wheel locks so you don't pinch your finger. thats excrutiating!

I've been told that theres "generations" of chairs. you typically start with an adjustable one and fine tune it as you go. once you're done adjusting a few years down the road, you know what works for you and most look into a new chair without all the extra weight of the adjustable equipment. I ordered a new chair and dropped half the chair weight! I had not really been ready I guess, because theres things I got on the new chair that I certianly know better now, and in a few years I'll upgrade probably a final time. I don;t use the chair often, so this one will last awhile.



I agree with the rims. but wonder how that can be done. would you really want rough texture( I think like sandpaper) rubbing your hands raw? and any imprinted texture may go away when the hollow metal tube is bent into a circle. i grip the tire anyway, the rims aren't big enough to grip. however I do need to change wheel lock types. If I jam my finger and bend back my thumbnail just one more time.....
if you're looking for speed, get some of the gloves. First thing I received at the rehab center was a pair of fingerless, black leather gloves. I only used them a week but they add grip for sure!!

as I see it, the modern wheelchair is as condensed and bug free as it's going to get, but I'd love to see what ideas are brought up.

Hey for not munching your fingers on the locks have you thought of having pull to lock? You push them away to free the wheel and towards the wheel to engage them. I have mine like that and now wouldn't want my brakes any other way.

I could try that. I've often thought about removing them altogether. but that has it's own problems. if I were to reverse the brakes, wouldn't I still have the hardare in the way of my hand though? I've heard of locks that hide away. I think they call them scissor types. I may talk to my wheelchair rep and get those.



to continue with weird ideas, any way to cut the front two wheels down to one right under the footplate? that may cause more falls when reaching. hmm

without bringing up wings and jetpacks, or something futuristic that has zero funtionability, I'm out of ideas for now. why not make a robotic pair of AFO's? Go Go Gadget pants!

[Tinbasher]

Lucydog, on Aug 3 2007, 01:05 PM, said:

Hi Sarah

Dont worry about my comment about Disabilty North........... anyway Id like to see a chair where you can chnge the camber of the wheels easily. What i mean is when you buy a chair they all say you can do this, but what they really mean is you have to buy a new camber bar and fit it. id like to be able to switch so if you were out in the country you caould say have 8 degrees but then when you get back home switch back to maybe 2 degrees. Just an idea.

As Im up here in the north Im happy to meet up and chat. Im no expert but if you are interested let me know.

cheers
L

My old CYCLONE chair had a dual camber bar with a light camber = narrow wheelbase and heavy camber = wide wheelbase option it was useful.

Tom

[russ1]

Nothing here that hasn't already been done (apart from the jet pack thing) Lifestand do a lightweight stander in Ti that's supposedly usable as an every day chair (although if you can afford it - over £5k then you can afford another Ti chair too). Kuschall do an axle where you can change camber while sitting in the chair. Plenty of plastic covered rims on the market and also ergonomic shaped rims.

It's difficult to come up with any potential improvements that haven't already been explored or are not already available on the market. The biggest improvement would be to bring ultra light chairs down in price to be available thro the wheelchair service but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

[COOL Mobility]

For those wanting grippy handrims talk to Matt at http://www.PushBlack.com . Really nice guy and a C5-C6 quad. I bought a pair when in the US last year but after 30 years of pushing without rims at all, kept getting my fingers in the wrong place.

However they were quite grippy, very durable neoprene finish (not a mark on them after trying them for over a month) and the top can be made grippy by washing with detergent and inside allowed to get more slippery by not cleaning. Best rim treatment I've ever seen in 30 years in a chair, but not cheap at $200 a pair. Try them if you can, you may find what you search for.

www.PushBlack.com is not associated with me.

Edited by COOL Mobility, 11 August 2007 - 05:02 AM.