15 replies to this topic

[gsp23]

Dumb question...

I have only had my chair for one year now so it is still in good condition. Anyways, I was talking to my boyfriend the othernight after we were hunting, about how my next day chair would not have push handles but my offroad chair would always need to have them since I do some serious offroading where pushing is just sometimes needed as i dont go on paths and I routinely go through 4ft high weeds in a field, through farmers fields after they have been cut down so lots and lots and lots of mud after rain and also being farmers fields they are far from flat. Anyways, the point being that push handles are really sometimes necessary getting through the hunting terrain that I do.

When I was telling my boyfriend about this I said it as "when I wear out my existing chair and need a new one..." he started laughing and I asked him why he was laughing and he said that I wouldnt ever wear out the chair cause its simple and made of a basic metal design and anything that went out on it could be replaced like screws, axles, wheels, etc. That got me thinking... how do you actually wear out a chair and does an insurance company determine that you need a new one? I know I have heard something about insurance companies paying for new chairs every 5 years, is that a given or are there other considerations? When I got my existing chair I was in PT so I went through the full process of my dr write the Rx, havng PT evaluate me and do the paperwork working along with the wheelchair place who then submitted. Well I would be a PT short with my next chair since I dont go anymore so not sure who would do all that paperwork if anyone and where that would leave me.

I am not thinking of needing a new chair at this point as I said mine is only a year old but I am just curious how this process works moving forward if I "wear" mine out or how I would know when I need a new one in the years ahead.

[KimAndSophie]

When I had my Quickie GT bits started breaking every other week! When we had to pay very close to $500 just to replace two small bits that held the wheels on so they didn't keep coming off (parts on the chair, not axle pins), then we knew I had to get a new chair. It was actually cheaper to go ahead and get the new chair than to try to hold the old one togehter paying hundreds of dollars a month. That's one of the reasons I have only 3 dirreferent adjustments on my chair now, including the footrest hight, center of gravity, and space between wheels and side of chair. (The last one was only because I can add more or less camber if I wanted to).

[wheeels]

I just got a new chair. my old one was not worn out but my body has changed and did not fit it as well, I had the chair for 6 years.

I now use my old chair as a backup.

My new chair fits better and is about 10lbs lighter.

[Texaswheelz]

He is correct that the main part of your chair is probably not going to break, although I did break a frame once on a rigid. All of the parts that hold your chair together such as the back onto the frame...etc. will wear out. If you like your chair enough and didn't have any type of insurance or it hasn't been long enough then yes you could just replace those parts, although some times you might have a screw hole in the frame that has worn itself to big to be of any use. How often your insurance will buy you a new one normally varies between insurances and also how bad you need it. I've seen some who will replace a chair every 3 years and some turn down a replacement request on a 7-8 year old chair because it was still in good shape. I just replaced some arm pads for some one who's chair is over 15 years old, the rest of the chair seemed in fine shape though and they were happy with it. Medicare will buy one every 5 years, but they don't buy the ultra light titanium chairs, although I've seen them pay for a non titatium ultralight before, such as the tilite aero.

I'm still new with where I am working, which is a medical supply company, but from my understanding here is the process people go through to get a new chair from us. Normally a patient or one of our referral sources(PT, OT, Nurse..etc.) will contact us about getting some one a new chair. Either they have already got the Dr. to say that they need a new chair and the reasons why the need a new one and why they need the type they are wanting or we have to contact the Dr. and get this from them. A Dr. actually has to write a prescription for a seating eval., this is what you go through to get measured up for your chair and decide what type is best for you. A lot of times this is done at a rehab facility by a PT, so even if your not currently seeing a PT for anything, they will still set this up to come in and do. I had one done in the Spring with a PT i had never met before, but that is where DARS(who was paying for my chair) sent me. This doesn't have to be done by a PT though, but I'm pretty sure it has to be done by some one who has been certified to do it. Where I am working now we have 3 people that can do them and only 1 is a PT, the other two are both para's and one is the owner of the company and the other the VP, I'm hoping to be able to do them by this time next year. Where I had mine done at, they charged DARS for the seating eval. My company does it for free...if your buy the chair from us.

At the seating eval I had for my new chair, the PT had called in a sales person from a med company who she wanted to use, as I said above, this PT was a referral source for that sales person. You actually have a choice on what med company to use, but most of the time they won't ask you who you want to use, they just pull in who they know and trust or who they are friends with, and most of the time people don't know they have a choice, I didn't know i had a choice until I started working where I am now. After the eval is done it is signed off on by the Dr. and submitted to be paid for. After the insurance or who ever it was sent to says they will pay for it is ordered.

I went to work as a sales person for a med company just over a month ago, so that is what I'm currently doing, out looking for referrals sources to come to me or send a customer to me when they need something. We sell everything from canes and crutches to normal hospital chairs to custom quad chairs, seat cushions, backs, tires, wheels, beds, bathroom equip and urologicals..if you've seen it out there we sell it or can probably get it from just about any manufacturer. Right now I have a tilite, the owner has the invacare titanium I think and the VP has some old kuschall that he loves, so we sell em all.

So far I've gone on 4 different evals with the owner, 2 for tilites(a folder and a ZRA) and then one for a power chair and other for a power scooter. The first one I went to we met with the person getting the chair, her parents and her PT at a rehab, so it was a rather large seating eval. It was over a month ago(like my 2nd or 3rd day on the job), but we still haven't been able to get the Dr. to sign off on it, so we can't order it or submit it to the insurance company.

The last one I went to was a week ago and the guy came into the office and it was just me, him and the owner of the company there for the seating eval. His has already been given the green light and his tilite is on order. So there is a huge difference in Dr.'s and insurances companies and dealing with them.

Hope this answered some questions, but knowing me, it probably confused ya more.

[gsp23]

No you didnt confuse me more Thanks for the detailed info on the process though and the seating eval. I did know I have a choice of who to go through as the first time when they figured out the chair for me the PT asked if I had a preference and I already knew of where my insurance covered and they worked with that place a lot. I had called around to where my insurance covered cause I needed a loaner when I got out of the hospital and had my boyfriend pick up one by my house since I was over 3 hrs away from the hospital and rehab place I didnt want to return it back down there again.

Anyways, good info on the seating eval. Some of the process I knew but some was apparently transparent to me as the patient even with as educated as I like to be.

So I guess the bottom line is... unless I have a lot of problems with my chair, then in about 5yrs or so if I want to get a new chair cause of newer lighter models, etc then talk to my doc then and see what he says if I want to get the process moving. Hopefully I wont need a new one before then cause I like mine now, but then again its my first chair(s) so I have already learned some things that I wish I would have gotten or done differently than I did the first time!

Thanks for the info everyone!

[wheels5894]

I bought a Quickie 2 in 1987! It was made by Motion Designs (not Sunrise) and it is, of course, a folding chair. now I have various bits for it a different times, especially the crossed frame piece that does the folding. Now the chair is 20 (come on, sing happy birthday to it) and it is mostly used by people we know who break ankles and things. However it is definitely worn out. The holes in the frame start to become oval and the thing is less rigid and wobbles. It is OK for pushing someone out, but not for daily user propelled use.

now I did have a Health Service Suntech chair. It was fine but when the scissor piece broke they took it away and scrapped it after just a few years. I don't know why.

I think it just shows that the wearing out of chairs is very variable and one cannot predict it. My new Quickie Ti is supposed to have a life of 5 years according to Quickie but it had better do a lot more than that!

[Tim13]

I found a chair i really like and just keep replacing it with the same model when one gets worn.
That way i have an identical backup chair and a parts chair so it's not a big crisis if (when) a part breaks.

[wheels5894]

Good idea, Tim. Just for the interest, what model do you have?

[Tim13]

wheels5894, on Sep 28 2007, 01:39 PM, said:

Good idea, Tim. Just for the interest, what model do you have?

Quickie Revolution. I bought one of the first ones released, in all honesty, it wasn't terribly reliable
but the latest two (1997, 2003) are great.

[WheelsWithAttitude]

wheels5894, on Sep 28 2007, 10:49 AM, said:

My new Quickie Ti is supposed to have a life of 5 years according to Quickie but it had better do a lot more than that!

They actually give a estimated life span for their chairs? Is this based on everyday regular use? is this the time they give warranty on parts?
5 years does really not seem like a long time, hope they are wrong too and you have this chair for much longer, without problems.

When one considers how much a good sports/active chair costs nowadays they should last at least twice that.

My new chair is a little over 3 months old now and I am also very pleased with it, best fitting chair ever and I hope I'll have it for a long time as well.

Edited by WheelsWithAttitude, 29 September 2007 - 12:31 AM.

[wheels5894]

I suspect the 5 years is a way of getting more sales. The US insurance companies will, usually, fund a chair every 5 years so saying that is the life of a chair just help this process.

[rolling J]

gsp23, on Sep 27 2007, 11:34 AM, said:

Dumb question...

I have only had my chair for one year now so it is still in good condition. Anyways, I was talking to my boyfriend the othernight after we were hunting, about how my next day chair would not have push handles but my offroad chair would always need to have them since I do some serious offroading where pushing is just sometimes needed as i dont go on paths and I routinely go through 4ft high weeds in a field, through farmers fields after they have been cut down so lots and lots and lots of mud after rain and also being farmers fields they are far from flat. Anyways, the point being that push handles are really sometimes necessary getting through the hunting terrain that I do.

When I was telling my boyfriend about this I said it as "when I wear out my existing chair and need a new one..." he started laughing and I asked him why he was laughing and he said that I wouldnt ever wear out the chair cause its simple and made of a basic metal design and anything that went out on it could be replaced like screws, axles, wheels, etc. That got me thinking... how do you actually wear out a chair and does an insurance company determine that you need a new one? I know I have heard something about insurance companies paying for new chairs every 5 years, is that a given or are there other considerations? When I got my existing chair I was in PT so I went through the full process of my dr write the Rx, havng PT evaluate me and do the paperwork working along with the wheelchair place who then submitted. Well I would be a PT short with my next chair since I dont go anymore so not sure who would do all that paperwork if anyone and where that would leave me.

I am not thinking of needing a new chair at this point as I said mine is only a year old but I am just curious how this process works moving forward if I "wear" mine out or how I would know when I need a new one in the years ahead.

Medicare and Medicaid are changing constantly. It used to be that every 5 years you could get a new wc. Now if you have a change in function, the chair is beyond repair, you have out grown, or the chair does not meet your needs is the only way you get a new chair now. There is not time limit now. YOu should always be evaluated by a PT or OT at a seating clinic. This is for 2 reasons insurance is getting where they require this for the high end rehab manual wc and to make sure you are getting the right chair for you needs. You also need to have an RTS ( Rehab Technology Supplier) or ATP( Assistive Technology Provider) present for the eval these people will be from the medical equipment company. The medical company needs to have the following certifications NRRTS and JCAHO. This also makes sure you are getting the right equipment and from a reputable company. Also, check out the company and make sure they will come to your home for repairs and that they don't charge you a service call. Reputable companies do not charge a service charge to come out to the home.
I am a therapist by profession and can no longer practice do to my disability. I am now helping people make sure they don't get taken advantage of by medical companies only out to make money and not to make sure that the client is the right equipment. I have met a lot of people that have been lied to by companies stating that insurance wouldn't pay for a cushion replacement after 2 years which is not true and so forth. I want to educate people of their rights to proper equipment and service. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Judy

[Izziwhizzi]

wheels5894, on Sep 28 2007, 09:49 AM, said:

I bought a Quickie 2 in 1987! It was made by Motion Designs (not Sunrise) and it is, of course, a folding chair. now I have various bits for it a different times, especially the crossed frame piece that does the folding. Now the chair is 20 (come on, sing happy birthday to it) and it is mostly used by people we know who break ankles and things. However it is definitely worn out. The holes in the frame start to become oval and the thing is less rigid and wobbles. It is OK for pushing someone out, but not for daily user propelled use.

I bought my current Quickie 2 in '86 - again one made by Motion Designs and when Gerald Simmonds worked from his front room in his house. Folding, just the same as yours. I still use it 18 plus hours a day only with a couple of frame replacements. Backs though, they are a pain and need frequent replacing and are not cheap. My first origial one lasted years, whilst these last a few months.

I bought a solid frame Quickie 2 to replace it not too long ago (but a Sunrise one this time), supposedly set up the same as my old favourite but it isn't. I can't get comfy in it so I sweat within a few hours, and also it gave me a red patch on the top of my bum. Not from the cushion but I think the way the back rest velco's onto the seat sling, whilst my folding chair back is separate from the seat. So I feel well peed off as I have £1800 of new chair in the garage and I'm still sitted in my old 20+ year quickie.

Although I can afford a new chair I am very reluctant to do it just in case it happens again.

[rolling J]

Izziwhizzi, on Oct 20 2007, 08:30 AM, said:

wheels5894, on Sep 28 2007, 09:49 AM, said:

I bought a Quickie 2 in 1987! It was made by Motion Designs (not Sunrise) and it is, of course, a folding chair. now I have various bits for it a different times, especially the crossed frame piece that does the folding. Now the chair is 20 (come on, sing happy birthday to it) and it is mostly used by people we know who break ankles and things. However it is definitely worn out. The holes in the frame start to become oval and the thing is less rigid and wobbles. It is OK for pushing someone out, but not for daily user propelled use.

I bought my current Quickie 2 in '86 - again one made by Motion Designs and when Gerald Simmonds worked from his front room in his house. Folding, just the same as yours. I still use it 18 plus hours a day only with a couple of frame replacements. Backs though, they are a pain and need frequent replacing and are not cheap. My first origial one lasted years, whilst these last a few months.

I bought a solid frame Quickie 2 to replace it not too long ago (but a Sunrise one this time), supposedly set up the same as my old favourite but it isn't. I can't get comfy in it so I sweat within a few hours, and also it gave me a red patch on the top of my bum. Not from the cushion but I think the way the back rest velco's onto the seat sling, whilst my folding chair back is separate from the seat. So I feel well peed off as I have £1800 of new chair in the garage and I'm still sitted in my old 20+ year quickie.

Although I can afford a new chair I am very reluctant to do it just in case it happens again.

So it sounds like you just have a soft back were the top folds down to look like it is double the thickness going down about half of the back of the chair. Have you thought about trying a solid back or contoured back such as a Roho Jetstream Pro in standard or low height depending on your balance level or Jay Xtreme. These backs would allow some space at the bottom of your back and your bum. Also giving you better support and comfort. Also if you have bought the chair in the past year the dealer you bought it from needs to do whatever it takes to get it to work for you. If it does not work for you he needs to try a different chair or see if the back can be adjusted. You said it is a solid frame. Does the back fold down for transport? If it does it should be able to be what we call opened up ( the angle should be able to be increased to meet your needs). Did your insurance pay for your chair or did you pay out of pocket? If it was insurance and within the past year the dealer should have to work with you to get it right. It sounds like you aren't in the states and of course I am going by USA rules. Talk to me and lets see if we can figure out how to get this fixed for you.
Judy

[access bob]

gsp23, on Sep 27 2007, 11:34 AM, said:

Dumb question...

I have only had my chair for one year now so it is still in good condition. Anyways, I was talking to my boyfriend the othernight after we were hunting, about how my next day chair would not have push handles but my offroad chair would always need to have them since I do some serious offroading where pushing is just sometimes needed as i dont go on paths and I routinely go through 4ft high weeds in a field, through farmers fields after they have been cut down so lots and lots and lots of mud after rain and also being farmers fields they are far from flat. Anyways, the point being that push handles are really sometimes necessary getting through the hunting terrain that I do.

When I was telling my boyfriend about this I said it as "when I wear out my existing chair and need a new one..." he started laughing and I asked him why he was laughing and he said that I wouldnt ever wear out the chair cause its simple and made of a basic metal design and anything that went out on it could be replaced like screws, axles, wheels, etc. That got me thinking... how do you actually wear out a chair and does an insurance company determine that you need a new one? I know I have heard something about insurance companies paying for new chairs every 5 years, is that a given or are there other considerations? When I got my existing chair I was in PT so I went through the full process of my dr write the Rx, havng PT evaluate me and do the paperwork working along with the wheelchair place who then submitted. Well I would be a PT short with my next chair since I dont go anymore so not sure who would do all that paperwork if anyone and where that would leave me.

I am not thinking of needing a new chair at this point as I said mine is only a year old but I am just curious how this process works moving forward if I "wear" mine out or how I would know when I need a new one in the years ahead.

I routinely wore out chairs all the time, in fact in the first 25 years of using chairs I never had one that lasted more than 2 years. and I had as good as I could get, including one of the very first QUickies out of the garage. GPV and Super pro -T none were very durable. then along came Ti-Liite and I got one of the custom fixed frame chairs, no moving parts, no adjustments. just one solid piece of titanium... finally got a chair to three years before needing a new one, first time I ever got the same chair a second time.
One consideration, you design it, completely, they will help, but they will send you a plan and you will ok it, Then it is yours even if it doesn't fit, if it matches what you signed it is yours. deffinately not a first time chair,. you need to know exactly what you want, but if you do then you can't get a better manual chair, not cheap and you will probably have to fight with your insurance company but convince them it is cheaper in the long run than constantly replacing worn out chairs.

Bob

[wriggley]

my chair is a kuschall airlite pro and i love it. its small light and very manouverable but its knackered. The frame is twisted so that i end up sitting of to one side the footrest keeps dropping the camber bar has a crack in it. it needs new casters and bearings too but since the rest of it has had it and needs replacing it would be throwing good money after bad. It was in ok shape til i started uni in september but the miles of campus and getting to lectures has pretty much finished it off

Wriggley