[Erik Kondo]

Hello,

I have created a non-profit that instructs self-defense to people with disabilities ( www.not-me.org ). I would like to hear personal stories from people who have been in either physical assault situations or aggressive verbal confrontations which had the potential to have turned violent. These types of first hand accounts will be very helpful in to the program.

I appreciate peoples input and responses.

[A trophy guy]

Erik Kondo, on 18 November 2007 - 02:58 AM, said:

Hello,

I have created a non-profit that instructs self-defense to people with disabilities ( www.not-me.org ). I would like to hear personal stories from people who have been in either physical assault situations or aggressive verbal confrontations which had the potential to have turned violent. These types of first hand accounts will be very helpful in to the program.

I appreciate peoples input and responses.

Well I know this a long dead thread but since it had never been replied to I figured I would go ahead and share my experiences here...

I have always been a very assertive, confrontational person, even before my injury (which was in 2000). This personal characteristic has been both an asset and a flaw in different situations and stages in my life, but it is one that is most definitely a part of me.

When I was first injured I had a lot of anger and a lot of depression. I coped with this by drinking, and drinking excessively. When I look back now at that first year, year and a half and think about how much I was drinking and how much danger I was putting myself in, I can't believe I got through it as luckily as I did.

Well let me tell you, don't think someone won't hit a guy in a wheelchair if 1) both guys are drunk as sailors 2) the guy in the wheelchair is a big enough dick 3) so is the guy he's yelling at. And I've had those three elements combine in my "drunk days" first adjusting to life in a wheelchair.

It was just after last call at the bar I was always at. Everyone was hanging out just outside the bar in the alleyway outside the back door. I was sitting right next to the building, smoking a cigarette (I hadn't yet quit). I see some truck (I didn't yet know it was the DJ who had been working inside the bar that night) backing up directly towards me and the wall. The truck continues towards me, as if it needs to get right up against the wall of the building, and I'm in the way.

Well, I had no where to even go, so I throw up my hands and yell "What the f**k man!" (keep in mind, I was shit-faced). The guy rolls his window down and starts yelling something back at me (he was shit faced as well). We start belligerently shouting back and forth to each other, and one thing leads to another and pretty soon he jumps out of his truck and comes charging right towards me...

Seeing as how I couldn't even retreat as I was between this nut job and the wall of the building, my fight or flight instincts must have kicked in and as this turd came rushing towards me, I threw the first punch. As I did this (I did hit him), it kind of launched me out of my chair and he grabbed me (I think he was grabbing me anyway, but the propulsion from me swinging on him made it easier for him to grab me) and we both fell to the ground.

I'm not totally sure how long we were actually on the ground here, because it seemed longer than it really was, I'm sure. Remember, there were all kinds of people nearby watching this happen; so when it got to the point of me getting pulled out of my chair and going to the ground with this guy, it didn't last too long before it got broken up.

But I did get cut on my face pretty severely. He had a ring on his finger and he had punched me right between my eyebrows, ripping it right open. I had to go the ER that night and have it stitched shut. And since I had been drinking, they didn't even give me anastethia. But I did manage to get a couple licks in myself when we were both down there on the ground like that. In that setting, the radical physical advantages of an AB kind of get neutralized a bit. Just a bit though.

This post has been edited by A trophy guy: 29 October 2011 - 09:58 PM

[Snakeye]

I have a permit and "go packing" so no worries..Crime is bad in these parts..Certainly have no desire to shoot anyone but would to protect my family...My fist-fighting days are long over....

[Califanna]

Snakeye, on 29 October 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

I have a permit and "go packing" so no worries..Crime is bad in these parts..Certainly have no desire to shoot anyone but would to protect my family...My fist-fighting days are long over....

Where do you keep your gun? I saw one guy in a chair and he had it under his seat in a holster attached with velcro.

[Snakeye]

Califanna, on 30 October 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

Snakeye, on 29 October 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

I have a permit and "go packing" so no worries..Crime is bad in these parts..Certainly have no desire to shoot anyone but would to protect my family...My fist-fighting days are long over....

Where do you keep your gun? I saw one guy in a chair and he had it under his seat in a holster attached with velcro.

In a fannie-pack bag or back-pack attached to chair but usually keep it in the truck when away from the house and generally don't take it into buildings...I live in gun country...very common for folks to go packing...the law hereabouts allows for one to defend themselves from attack or robbery, etc with deadly force, even if someone is merely threatening you in your yard or while you are in your car...we have the "Make my day Law." Yeeeehaww

[edlee]

I've always believed that a more liberal carry policy makes for a much politer society. Now those of you in some other countries may have the idea that everyone here carries a gun,,, well,, I'm here to tell you that that is hardly the case. The vast majority goes unarmed,,,, and that , in itself,, is the problem. If we were ALL required to not only carry,, but become proficient with our weapon,,, after the first few months of shooting,,, only the polite would be left. Also a partial answer to overcrowded jails.

While I have a permit,, I seldom carry,, mostly because I have been fortunate enough to have never been worried about my safety. When that is no longer the case,, I will probably change, to. For now,, my strategy is to make them think I'm an easy mark,, to get them to come closer. Nobody easier to crack in the head with an armrest, than the arragant and unwary.

The best defense is to be alert.
ed

[KayDub]

edlee, on 30 October 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

I've always believed that a more liberal carry policy makes for a much politer society. Now those of you in some other countries may have the idea that everyone here carries a gun,,, well,, I'm here to tell you that that is hardly the case. The vast majority goes unarmed,,,, and that , in itself,, is the problem. If we were ALL required to not only carry,, but become proficient with our weapon,,, after the first few months of shooting,,, only the polite would be left. Also a partial answer to overcrowded jails.

While I have a permit,, I seldom carry,, mostly because I have been fortunate enough to have never been worried about my safety. When that is no longer the case,, I will probably change, to. For now,, my strategy is to make them think I'm an easy mark,, to get them to come closer. Nobody easier to crack in the head with an armrest, than the arragant and unwary.

The best defense is to be alert.
ed

edlee, I'm with you and I'm not with you. I came really close to getting my CCP when I turned 21, but my boyfriend at the time had his so I never pursued it through the end. I go shooting from time to time. I enjoy it when it's outside in the national forest, but wouldn't pay money to do it at a range. I don't hunt myself, but know plenty of people who do and have had a lot of elk meat in my freezer from friends. I own a handgun that's registered, but am thinking of selling it. My family in Canada all hunt more than my friends down here do, but they don't understand owning hand guns. My friends in Australia find it even more absurd, where bikies actually get hurt trying to make their own weapons because hand guns just aren't available there. I support responsible and safe gun ownership in the US, but I don't know if a higher rate of gun ownership would make things safer. If everyone was safe, rational and responsible in owning guns, then quite possibly, but I can't say in good faith that all Americans are rational and responsible. I'm also straight from the heart of Columbine, my mom's church is down the street from the school and I lost a few friends and attended many of the funerals. I in no way think "gun control" would have prevented it from happening at all, but having been exposed to that since I was a pre-teen, it's just given me a love-hate feeling about guns. I guess what it is is, being Canadian and working on becoming a naturalised Australian, I've seen gun control work. However I understand the US is different, particularly in the sense that there's already wide spread gun ownership here. The basics of gun control is that no one has access to guns, neither the "good" or the "bad" guys. But if guns are already abundant, taking them away from law abiding folks won't change those who could care less about the laws. So in that respect I support rational and safe gun ownership and further education, starting from a young age, about gun safety. It's sure a hard issur though!

[edlee]

The good thing about being on an Island ( Britain and Australia) is that you have a little easier time in controlling imports. When you have a lot of land borders,, is becomes more of a problem. As you say,, if everyone obeyed the law,, noone would need a gun,, nor police for that matter,,, but as all countries have police,, my guess is that there are those who choose not to obey the law, in all countries.

People will defend themselves,,,, eventually. Even the most abused will eventually rebel,, or die. Because it is innate in all living things to try to stay alive,, defense MUST be innate as well.

Now, one may choose to defend themselves by running away,, or locking themselves away,,, or,, worst of all,, allowing abuse to continue. I choose to do none of those. I depend on a civil authority to .... keep things civil... but in the end,, it is still up to all of us, to defend ourselves. I certainly don't aspire to ending another's life,, and I will give up my wallet,, and even my dignity to avoid that,,, BUT,, if I feel my life,, or that of my family,, is in peril,,, I will use what ever I have at my disposal to protect myself or them,, including deadly force.

Something for those who do choose to carry, to think about. Letting anyone know you have a gun in your possession,, is NOT a deterrent,, it is an invitation. The ONLY way a gun can protect you,, is if noone knows you have it. For every guy you scare off by showing it,, there will be four more waiting for your back to be turned so they can hit you with something and take it away from you.

[greybeard]

Gone a bit off topic, but Erik, you have a great site. Your self defence videos should be required viewing for all disadvantaged folks. Great initiative.

[tsh3406]

Snakeye, on 29 October 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

I have a permit and "go packing" so no worries..Crime is bad in these parts..Certainly have no desire to shoot anyone but would to protect my family...My fist-fighting days are long over....

X2, out grew the fistfighting in highschool....


"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis, United States Marine Corps.

[Vanessamaee]

I never had an accounter with an unwelcome person until this weekend. I was down in Kansas City for the American Royal Rodeo Thursday-Saturday and the concerts. And there were a number of drunk, dumb, guys. Twice, I had a guy come up to me and litterally not leave me alone. It was extremley awkward to the point where he was rubbing my thigh (not like I oculd feel it but I could damn well see it.). I used my big girl words saying, I wasnt interested and I would like it if he left me alone, and I went on my way. Well he followed me outside where he grabbed one of my wheels to stop me. I grabbed his wrist and twisted his arm around while managing to elbow him in the crotch. Dropped him down to the ground, and he left me alone. Guy number two didnt realize that the group of bullriders standing with me were my friends and that there was no way they were gonna let him get away with anything. They took care of him for me. I grew up working on a farm, tie down roping and wrestling with my older brother and his friends, so as far as self defense goes, I feel fine. But I do want to start carrying a pocket knife with me or something... if all else fails, my elbows are at crotch level and I don;t feel bad crushin the family jewels of an idiot.

This post has been edited by Vanessamaee: 31 October 2011 - 07:31 PM

[KayDub]

Kick ass V. Kick ass!

Sorry my last post was a bit off topic, I've been doing that lately! My apologies. As far as self-defense, I haven't had any problems since I've been in my chair. I don't imagine that lasting long, it seems like something all young females deal with, regardless of almost of anything. I dealt with loads of unwanted sexual contact as an AB, but also, at 6' 3", I was generally taller than the guys so unless alcohol/drugs were used to lower my inhibitions (which happened once) things generally remained verbal. The only unwanted contact I've had was non-sexual in nature. My fiance and I were talking to a buddy of ours who was working this party at a clubhouse we happened to be going to. We had accidentally set of the fire alarm (which is a different story) and were still waiting for the elevators to be turned back on. When they were, one of the guys who worked at the clubhouse came over to tell us. I started to roll towards the doors but my fiance and our buddy were still chatting and didn't see the guy. I stopped to wait but instead, the guy grabbed my push handles, pushed me inside and into the elevator. I had a sense it wasn't predatory in nature, so I didn't react right away. I tried to thank him but let him know I had no problem pushing myself and I was waiting for "him" (gestured towards my fiance). He had me in the elevator just in the doors by this time. The clubhouse employee then asked if he was my aid/assistant. I said, "Well he's my fiance, so it's like having a free assistant," trying to brush it off. He was pretty apologetic, but I think it was because of the faux pas mistaking my fiance for an aid and taking me away from him. I don't think he ever registered the biggest mistake was pushing me at all!

But that said, it was a situation that could have turned badly very quick. I had only been out of hospital for a few weeks, and it was really my first major public outing, other than the grocery store. Yes, my life is that sad, the grocery store now counts as a major public outing. Nevertheless, I was still very physically weak then and also didn't have my mental bearings. I wasn't used to being in a chair at all and I didn't really know what was okay or not okay. If the guy was predatory and not just dumb, he could have easily closed the elevator door and then who knows what.

Ideally, we should all do what V did in situations like that. Unfortunately for a lot of reasons people don't.

I never went to proper inpatient rehab, just did some shoddy 'need to know as quickly as we can' rehab in hospital, so if this exists ignore me. I think a self defense program would be good to add to rehab for these reasons. How to interact with other people when you're in a chair, some of the things that come up a lot (people touching your chair, touching you, etc.) It sounds corny, but just to let newbies know that their feelings are legit, whether they're okay with people grabbing their chair or not, for example, and how to assertively but politely approach others about those feelings. Then of course there could be further information on the kind of self-defense training going on here. Not so much the getting into fist fights (although could you imagine, Rehab Fight Club!... jk) or shooting people, rather sexual assaults or other kinds of assaults that occur when someone takes advantage of someone because of some sort of power indifference. It could be scenerios like what happened to V or assault by a carer or how to defend yourself living on your own so you don't become a target. People who commit these assaults look for people who they think lack power and when you're new to a chair (or have even been in one for awhile) this makes people targets.

I'm not sure if that's a dumb idea because it might come across as a bit cheesy. I think, if it's not being done already, it could be helpful is executed properly. The idea would be to educate wheelchair users about how to protect ourselves in our new situation while avoiding getting the 'stranger danger' 'bad touch good touch' schtick you get in primary school.

I also think the OP's program is a great idea!

[Conez™]

this is a great idea...
I wana self defense classes offered for free for women in our area.
In Cairns, violence against women and TOURISTS is at a staggering high.

On topic, Nic was assulted last year by a random person knocking at his front door.
on answering the door the offender snatched Nics lap bag (which at the time was only holding the TV remote)
Nics reaction was to grab the arm and bag, a struggle ensued and Nic was dragged out of his chair to land hard on cement.
unfortunately due to this trauma Nic spent 6mths in hospital recovering.

the police are yet to do more....

however I would support any self defense class for people with any type of disablity (that shows, even tho limits exist, how to overcome and defend yourself)
especially if it gave techinques on how to avoid physical confrontation and if in case of, how to protect oneself without causing further injury to yourself.....

we would gladly attend a Lap Bag defense class just to avoid this situation happening again.

[greybeard]

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

we would gladly attend a Lap Bag defense class just to avoid this situation happening again.

A good place to start is to watch some of Erik's clips here :
http://www.apparelyz...__fromsearch__1

[Conez™]

greybeard, on 31 October 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

we would gladly attend a Lap Bag defense class just to avoid this situation happening again.

A good place to start is to watch some of Erik's clips here :
http://www.apparelyz...__fromsearch__1

Thanks heaps GB, that was really helpful... there is nothing like this locally., not the same as seeing it on youtube to actually putting true self defense to action...
when attacked this is not a natural instinct and these responses need to be learned..... so a class or 2 would be helpful.

I'm already loving the Apparelyzed forum... u guys are so helpful, besides obvious ar*se kissing I really appreciate all the members input on all these different topics throughout the site... many I have never considered in such detail, with quite a few post that can really make a difference.
Thanks Guys

This post has been edited by Conez™: 31 October 2011 - 01:58 PM

[tsh3406]

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

greybeard, on 31 October 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

we would gladly attend a Lap Bag defense class just to avoid this situation happening again.

A good place to start is to watch some of Erik's clips here :
http://www.apparelyz...__fromsearch__1

Thanks heaps GB, that was really helpful... there is nothing like this locally., not the same as seeing it on youtube to actually putting true self defense to action...
when attacked this is not a natural instinct and these responses need to be learned..... so a class or 2 would be helpful.

I'm already loving the Apparelyzed forum... u guys are so helpful, besides obvious ar*se kissing I really appreciate all the members input on all these different topics throughout the site... many I have never considered in such detail, with quite a few post that can really make a difference.
Thanks Guys

I'm so glad you said that. You always hear folks, men especially, spout off about what they'd do in a situation, and they don't need self defense training. There is NOTHING wrong with taking self defense classes, it IS a learned response and even US Marines are taught how to act and react.

[Vanessamaee]

I feel I should also say that Your non-profit is a very good idea! Not many people do know how to defend themselves, disabled or able bodied. And usually predators go after people who look weaker, this could easily target a disabled person. Also you're site is very nice, helpful and easy to navigate (: I checked it out myself
Good Luck!

[Snakeye]

tsh3406, on 31 October 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

greybeard, on 31 October 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

Conez™, on 31 October 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

we would gladly attend a Lap Bag defense class just to avoid this situation happening again.

A good place to start is to watch some of Erik's clips here :
http://www.apparelyz...__fromsearch__1

Thanks heaps GB, that was really helpful... there is nothing like this locally., not the same as seeing it on youtube to actually putting true self defense to action...
when attacked this is not a natural instinct and these responses need to be learned..... so a class or 2 would be helpful.

I'm already loving the Apparelyzed forum... u guys are so helpful, besides obvious ar*se kissing I really appreciate all the members input on all these different topics throughout the site... many I have never considered in such detail, with quite a few post that can really make a difference.
Thanks Guys

I'm so glad you said that. You always hear folks, men especially, spout off about what they'd do in a situation, and they don't need self defense training. There is NOTHING wrong with taking self defense classes, it IS a learned response and even US Marines are taught how to act and react.

To the best of my knowledge the flight or fight response is ingrained in us from birth while fighting skills are indeed learned...

[sjmhb030]

I've in the chair for 9 years, I've gotten in a few confrontations since the injury, I've been in a few fist fights, most recent was in March, broke my hand from a fist fight, I've pulled a knife out once, and have bottled someone once, and have gotten my share I punches to the face as well,lol but my self defense are my friends and people I know, they would do anything for me in any situation and I do mean anything...but if I have to fight for myself I do, and if I get a beaten I take it like a man

[Conez™]

Snakeye, on 31 October 2011 - 08:07 PM, said:

To the best of my knowledge the flight or fight response is ingrained in us from birth while fighting skills are indeed learned...

yes agreed, I got fight or flight response but lose all common sense with fear and/or alcohol or meds in my system....
if for some bizarre reason Erik wanted to pick a fight with me he'd win hands down, only coz he's learnt to control that fear (...and I'd submit too easy, let him win ;))

would that mean (the psychological mindset need for) self defense could be considered fighting? them some skills I could use coz I cant run very fast

This post has been edited by Conez™: 01 November 2011 - 12:10 PM

[Snakeye]

All the self-defense training in the world does little good unless you have the "will" to fight back. Even firearms training is kinda worthless if one doesn't have the will to pull the trigger. Many people don't , disabled or AB, whether they are trained in self-defense or not... Being aware of your surroundings, having the right attitude, not letting your mouth overload your ass and knowing when to retreat will keep down the chances of having to physically defend yourself..But, I supose it is a good idea to be aware of self-defense techniques just in case all else fails....

This post has been edited by Snakeye: 01 November 2011 - 12:30 PM

[Tarkus]

I pack heat but more important I would have no problem using it.
A hand gun is built for killing so if you plan to carry one you better be ready ro draw and shoot.

Be Big,
AMAC

[tsh3406]

Snakeye, on 01 November 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

All the self-defense training in the world does little good unless you have the "will" to fight back. Even firearms training is kinda worthless if one doesn't have the will to pull the trigger. Many people don't , disabled or AB, whether they are trained in self-defense or not... Being aware of your surroundings, having the right attitude, not letting your mouth overload your ass and knowing when to retreat will keep down the chances of having to physically defend yourself..But, I supose it is a good idea to be aware of self-defense techniques just in case all else fails....

Excellent point, it is a balance of having the will to do what needs to be done and the knowledge to do it most efficiently and effectively.

[edlee]

Tarkus hit it on the head. If you aren't willing to shoot to kill,,, why carry at all?

Safety is a state of mind. It is the absence of fear. One should do the things that allow them to free of fear,, or at least,, free enough. Otherwise we would never leave our beds. If classes do it for you ,, good,,,, if carrying a shotgun is necessary,,, good luck with that. For me,,, staying aware of my surroundings generally does it for me.
ed

[Vanessamaee]

sjmhb030, on 01 November 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

I've in the chair for 9 years, I've gotten in a few confrontations since the injury, I've been in a few fist fights, most recent was in March, broke my hand from a fist fight, I've pulled a knife out once, and have bottled someone once, and have gotten my share I punches to the face as well,lol but my self defense are my friends and people I know, they would do anything for me in any situation and I do mean anything...but if I have to fight for myself I do, and if I get a beaten I take it like a man

All I have to say is... Wheelchair boxing (:

[sjmhb030]

Vanessamaee, on 01 November 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

sjmhb030, on 01 November 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

I've in the chair for 9 years, I've gotten in a few confrontations since the injury, I've been in a few fist fights, most recent was in March, broke my hand from a fist fight, I've pulled a knife out once, and have bottled someone once, and have gotten my share I punches to the face as well,lol but my self defense are my friends and people I know, they would do anything for me in any situation and I do mean anything...but if I have to fight for myself I do, and if I get a beaten I take it like a man

All I have to say is... Wheelchair boxing (:

Haha sign me up :-)

[Conez™]

Snakeye, on 30 October 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

Califanna, on 30 October 2011 - 04:30 AM, said:

Snakeye, on 29 October 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

I have a permit and "go packing" so no worries..Crime is bad in these parts..Certainly have no desire to shoot anyone but would to protect my family...My fist-fighting days are long over....

Where do you keep your gun? I saw one guy in a chair and he had it under his seat in a holster attached with velcro.

In a fannie-pack bag or back-pack attached to chair but usually keep it in the truck when away from the house and generally don't take it into buildings...I live in gun country...very common for folks to go packing...the law hereabouts allows for one to defend themselves from attack or robbery, etc with deadly force, even if someone is merely threatening you in your yard or while you are in your car...we have the "Make my day Law." Yeeeehaww

lucky bastards! I dont approve of gun laws tho

[Snakeye]

edlee, on 01 November 2011 - 07:08 PM, said:

Tarkus hit it on the head. If you aren't willing to shoot to kill,,, why carry at all?

Safety is a state of mind. It is the absence of fear. One should do the things that allow them to free of fear,, or at least,, free enough. Otherwise we would never leave our beds. If classes do it for you ,, good,,,, if carrying a shotgun is necessary,,, good luck with that. For me,,, staying aware of my surroundings generally does it for me.
ed

Your right..For example: Weve had several instances lately in these parts where there were robberies etc, where witneeses on the scene were packing and did nothing...When the congresswoman in Arizona and others were shot a man on the scene was packing as well and failed to act..I agree, don't carry if ya can't pull the trigger. What's the point?....

[davjed]

Yeah, one of the things stressed at my CCW classes was that if you do pull and use your weapon "there will be consequences". Even if you were legally in the right, there will be civil suits thrown at you. Think before you act.........

[Snakeye]

davjed, on 02 November 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

Yeah, one of the things stressed at my CCW classes was that if you do pull and use your weapon "there will be consequences". Even if you were legally in the right, there will be civil suits thrown at you. Think before you act.........

For sure..Taking a human life is no small thing..Not like a video game nor a Rambo movie...Not only will ya probably he questioned severly by the authorities and sued in civil court but you'll have to live with your actions for the rest of your life...Like Davy Crockett said: "Be sure your right..then go ahead."