[Lucydog]

You may remember a few months ago I went for a job I was really well qualified for, have great experience and wonderful referees, but didnt get it. The job was disability related and I know a lot of disabled people in Cumbria went for the job so I tried to be philosophical about it. Anyway it was a local govt job, and being that its a small world up here Ive found out the person who was appointed, has no experience, no qualifcations, and is not disabled, so Im wondering how come? Carlisle City council are quick to shout about being positive about disabled people and then give the job to someone not disabled.... although the do have a disabled relative, dont we all?

Now Im not being sour grapes but I feel so cross about this. So many disabled people must have really got their hopes up about this job, but in reality they stood no chance, I dont think employers realise just what a job means to disabled people, it isnt just about the money.

Im sure there are no grounds to complain, they will have covered themselves Im sure, and frankly I wouldnt want the job but I feel so bad for everyone who applied, and I feel very aggrieved whan they stick the 2 ticks symbol all over the place and at the end of the day they use it when they feel like it.

I dont suppose raising it with the Equality and Human Rights Commission would do any good, but Id like to complain to someone just to get it off my chest. I just cant stand the injustice for everyone who applied.


Ok Rant Over.

[kewlcatkez]

Well, All I can say is that the NHS Trust, and hospital where I was employed also had the Ticks symbol. They also bragged openly and repeatedly about having ties with the disabled community. They make/made all the right 'noises'. However, my experiences, and that of others who I know is quite the opposite. All the evidence which I am others who have been treated similarly indicates that the Trust is quite happy to extend its arm to the "disabled Community" if their disabilities are not visible, and or if they are in menial roles..the ones no one else wants.

They also seem to love employing a token person here and there, but not in careers and vocations which have taken years of work and experience to build.

Me bitter..Damn right

K

[kashley]

Lucydog, on Dec 2 2007, 01:43 PM, said:

You may remember a few months ago I went for a job I was really well qualified for, have great experience and wonderful referees, but didnt get it. The job was disability related and I know a lot of disabled people in Cumbria went for the job so I tried to be philosophical about it. Anyway it was a local govt job, and being that its a small world up here Ive found out the person who was appointed, has no experience, no qualifcations, and is not disabled, so Im wondering how come? Carlisle City council are quick to shout about being positive about disabled people and then give the job to someone not disabled.... although the do have a disabled relative, dont we all?

Now Im not being sour grapes but I feel so cross about this. So many disabled people must have really got their hopes up about this job, but in reality they stood no chance, I dont think employers realise just what a job means to disabled people, it isnt just about the money.

Im sure there are no grounds to complain, they will have covered themselves Im sure, and frankly I wouldnt want the job but I feel so bad for everyone who applied, and I feel very aggrieved whan they stick the 2 ticks symbol all over the place and at the end of the day they use it when they feel like it.

I dont suppose raising it with the Equality and Human Rights Commission would do any good, but Id like to complain to someone just to get it off my chest. I just cant stand the injustice for everyone who applied.


Ok Rant Over.

I do not know anything about the UK but here it would be discrimation and grounds for a lawsuit.

[Deej]

I do work in an NHS Trust with the 2 ticks symbol, but yes I did have to fight to get back to work after my accident, enlisting help from my professional union and also my local councillor at the time (this was all 13 years ago now). I had to accept a drop from full-time to part time hours, though I am now happy about that decision. Having said all that since being back at work I have not felt discriminated against in any way, I get the same chances at promotion, further study etc as everybody else, and in fact have been promoted 6 years ago.

I feel I have proved myself over and above many of my AB colleagues, and have had a good deal less time off sick than many of them too. One thing that did really annoy me earlier this year though was that during a period of job redundancy measures there were a couple of voluntary redundancies in my dept., but the only 2 enforced redundancies were to one lady with MS and another with diabetes. I am sure these deceisions were made based on the fact that these 2 staff had required time off sick due to their respective illnesses. Not really sure that kind of action befits a '2 ticks' employer.

[kewlcatkez]

Deej, on Dec 3 2007, 02:34 PM, said:

I do work in an NHS Trust with the 2 ticks symbol, but yes I did have to fight to get back to work after my accident, enlisting help from my professional union and also my local councillor at the time (this was all 13 years ago now). I had to accept a drop from full-time to part time hours, though I am now happy about that decision. Having said all that since being back at work I have not felt discriminated against in any way, I get the same chances at promotion, further study etc as everybody else, and in fact have been promoted 6 years ago.

Hi,

I am glad that you were successful with your fight for your rights! I honestly feel that if it was at a different time, I would have been accommodated as they put it, a lot more readily and without as much hassle as I had.

Initially, due to my worsening connective tissue disorder, I began using crutches as my hip was dislocating all the time. This was pre paralysis, but I obviously had visible 'issues'. To be honest some staff who I wrked with were lovely, and I even managed to keep hold of my job when others lost theirs. We had to apply for our own positions long before the Media documented ones. I also obtained a promotion or two and was at the top of my Grade.
However, even then I had problems with how I was treated. The RCN were not a lot of use to be honest , but I managed to sort most of the issues out with my Manager and HR. They didn't want me to use crutches, etc and worried how I would be able to manage "manual handling' on the wards. At the time we were so over stretched that our Support workers did the Patient turns etc, because I worked on a Specialist unit and my time was taken up giving Iv's, admitting people, ECGS, etc.

I just got that sorted when things went pear shaped and I became one of the Paralyzed club...After I had some rehab and got to the stage where I felt I was ready to go back, They were not very happy with the chair. Granted, I have a complicated situation as I dislocate a lot, every joint pretty much these days ( it has worsened due to hormones, repeated injury - vicious circle, and pregnancies etc), However, once we went through the fact that I had been working with EDS for years ( unbeknownst to us) and what I would do if I had a bad one, they were very unhappy about the chair. Even though I had many people on my side from Unions to someone who fulfills a similar role in the USA and a dr who uses a chair at a different Trust, it still didn't help.

After they were aware that I could use braces and crutches for very short distances they demanded me to work that way. unfortunately they don't understand that very short means just that, and that I am not able to keep that up all day! or even all 5 minutes lol.

In the end, after a lil while, I did go back to work in a slightly modified capacity. I was still in a clinical setting, still doing the same things.

Unfortunately, it didn't work out. Management and HR made it as difficult s possible really. Some who I worked with who I was close to were fabulous, but others weren't so. Those who I looked after - the patients, well I got a lot of positive comments and compliments and many felt I could relate to them more?? I was only aware 2 negative comments from clients. One was a lady who found fault with all the staff no matter what and the other was a gent who thought that I should be living in a home as I was disabled! He later said that he had been enlightened...

To be honest, after a while I got to the point where I dreaded going to work and then I was a wreck for a few days afterwards. This was more b/c of my dislocations and associated fatigue and b/c I was pushing myself so hard and so far, to prove something. The management were visibly relieved when things didn't work out and when I asked them about it ( it was very obvious) they said they were afraid of what people would think, a Nurse who looks like a patient...They were quick to add that people with "disabilities which are less serious, people who "don't look so disabled" would be easier to "accommodate".

There is so much that I could say, but I will leave it there...

I didn't have excessive time off other than when I was in hospital/rehab and prior to that for my Maternity leave etc. I did notice a complete change in attitude with those I worked with. I worked part time.


K


ps, sorry to go on a bit..its all pretty raw still since it isn't very long ago. I must say that m y immediate manager was in tears when I left and I had others who I had worked with who appeared to think the same. They said that I am/was a good Nurse and that it was very sad to lose me and the experience I had. Its all platitudes I guess, but there was a time when I had awards and multiple promotions. I undertook and excelled in a professional course whilst a crip too... I still have many thank you letters from family and clients spanning quite a few years...so I know that I was a great nurse...not that any of it means anything now!

This post has been edited by kewlcatkez: 03 December 2007 - 03:20 PM

[Apparelyzed]

Just in case anyone's wondering, this is what the symbol looks like:



Regards

Simon

[Jsec64]

Hi Lucy
You might like this little gem of a story to motivate you too complain in the right way! and not wanting to teach you to suck eggs here.
For legal reasons I am unable to disclose the company although I can say its a very well known retailer. Whilst browsing online I saw and advertisement advertsing for a Security Manager in my local City (Brighton). Firstly I have some 22 years experience within both the HM Forces and Commercial Security arena at a very high level.
Initially applications were online and so I completed the necessary paperwork thinking I would at least get an interview given my experience and skill set even with my disability. I was declined by email straight away. I called their HO and asked for an explanation. They advised my salary expectations were far too high - in fact I was 2k out and I informed them that surely I was worth a look and asked them to reconsider.
This they did, and I completed a telephone interview which I subsequently passed. I was then asked a question as to What they(employer) could do to ensure a smooth transition into the workplace given my disability, both for interview and if successful etc. I advised them that I would like to met the Store Manager in advance and view the back areas for compatibility. I also asked about parking as I know the area and in this area they were very inflexible.
I did meet with the Manager and chatted and got shown round. On viewing the areas I imediately knew I could the job and be successful. When I was being shown round I asked for the disabled toilet. On opening it I found stock being kept in the facility and the Manager was embarraassed. I also asked if they could make provision for parking if sucessful for interview. Anyway to cut a long story short I got to interview a couple of weeks later and still I was met with lots of obstacles in gaining entry.
I met with Manager and an Operations representative. The questions throughout the interview were mainly geared towards my disability and how would I cope. The first question being 'We didn;t expect any disabled applicants' [i]I assurred them that my disability was not an issue provided that we could work together and make some small changes. One of the questions around the role was put to me based on a current practice they adopted. I disagreed with this practice quoting various legal issues etc and my experience with with various other retailers and agencies. My answer higlighted one of the interviewers as being not as knowledgable as he thought. Anyway having completed the interview the Manager stated I had interviewed extremely well and would be in touch within the week.
This did not happen and I received a letter advising I had been unsuccessful. Not put off I wrote to HR simpley requesting a detailed breakdown of the areas where I was weak and how I compared to other candidates and there selection process.
Nothing received - I then sent another letter to HR indicating I felt I had interviewed well and the only negatives side would be for the employer to have to change some working practices around my disability and I reminded them that I am legally entitled to see their evaluation process. I gave them 7 days in which to reply.
Nothing received - I then used my Home Insurance Policy to pursue a legal case against them for discrimination. They settled out of court and I was 10k better off.[i]So Lucy - you are entitled to see the evaluation process and remember that questions asked during interview have to be the same for each candidate, irrespective of disability. This includes the employers notes during interview - your own notes and their formal scoring process if they had one and seeing how the other candidates were evaluated.
If you feel strongly enough about the issue and having received the employers information evaluate the information as to whether or not you might have a case. If so pursue it. A solicitor has to evaluate the information received and has to judge whether or not your case is likely to succeed by 51%.

Kind Regards
John

[Lucydog]

Wow John, well done!

I really do feel that everyone was discriminated against, Im past caring about the job but Im big on the principle. Seems the successful applicant was an internal appointment with no experience. I feel they were just going through the motions with no intention of appointing someone who might make waves or actually know what they are doing. It was all a fait accompli. Im looking into it to see if I have a case for sueing them actually.

To be honest if someone said to me that the person who did get the job was the best candidate Id be the first to hold my hand up and say 'Im sorry I got it wrong' but I really dont think its the case this time.

I did ask for feedback and in the letter I was told I did not seem to be 'enthusiastic' enough. Anyone who knows me is frankly amazed by this as Ive been called many things in my time, but never this! Without blowing my own trumpet, I alwasy interview very well, so what else I could have done is beyond me.

[HiltonP]

If I have to fight my employer to keep my job, then the job is not worth having, or more importantly the employer is not worthy of my skills.

I too encountered resistance in my very first job, as a lowly clerk for a very large financial services company. My department head, and his section head, did not fancy having me in their department (I was placed there by HR). They tried all sorts of tricks to get me out. It was all a bit threatening for me in the beginning, but I learned how to deal with it, and waited for the right time. I realised that I was never going to progress with those two, and I didn’t fancy wasting precious years trying to prove a point.

When the time was right for ME, I jumped ship and took a job with a different company, one which recognised my skills (and ignored my disability). I remember having a 3 hour interview, and not once was my disability discussed, only what skills I brought to the business. Within a couple of years I had moved from a junior position into management, and my salary had increased by 15x!
During this time the company approached me, and offered to fund a powerchair because they believed it would allow me to be more productive.

It’s all a mindset thing. Some businesses understand, others are lost causes. Trying to score points off an un-cooperative company, or trying to persuade/educate the un-informed is a waste of your life. Find a company that appreciates the skills you have, is willing to pay you for them, and utilises those skills to both your, and their benefit.

[Jsec64]

Hi Lucy

It is your right Lucy to have a full and complete explanation as to have you faired against the other candidates.
You must ask for specifics and set a deadline for them to respond. I myself would have held my hands up also if indeed I wasn't the best candidate for the role but it is the responsibility of the employer to give you specifics and ask how they scored each candidate. If you want to discuss how I went about it then email me jsec64@hotmail.com
Goodluck

[megatrig]

Lucy

Sorry to hear that!

I really do think we are ummm to laid back, not pro-active enough, not aggressive enough?!?! ......... desperately seeking the right phrase!!

At times in so many areas the UK .. job market, National Health, local district councils, ..

and here I mean just f....g up a dropped kerb .............. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

just don't care because they have never been put under the spotlight!

The USA have very good equal rights from what I can see. I just don't get it over here I really don't!!

I still think that certain companies, employesr, councils see us as a "terrible burden" and we would cause huge problems and do cause huge problems!!

I too could rant lots more!!

[Lucydog]

Thanks for the replies. I contacted the Equality and Human Rights commision who think I have a good case to claim discrimination as the Council has a duty to positively promote disabled people in the work place and they chose not to do so in this case. Its all the more perplexing as the post is directly to do with disbility. Im going to try to take them to a tribunal over it, but I only have 3 months to do so and with Christmas now upon us I only have a about a month left to get it organised. But Ill do my best!

[cate]

Go for it lucydog, it is right that you make a stand. good luck, routing for you
Cate.

[Jsec64]

Hi Lucy
Just a Quickie - Check to see if you have Legal Cover on your Home Insurance Policy as thats how I pursued my case. Make sure you meet that deadline.

[nomis]

Hi lucydog.
That's great that you've got the Equality and Human Rights Commission involved.

Failing that I was going to suggest you grabbing the ear of one of the elected councillors - there's always one on the side of minorities - who could go into bat for you.

Pending legal action might cause them to shut shop but I think it would still be worth a go. It'd be very beneficial to have someone on the inside who is on your side or at least sympathetic.

[HiltonP]

Playing devil's advocate here . . .

What is the point of trying to force a company / organisation / employer to take you onto their staff when they are quite clearly not interested / anti-disabled? You are never going to be welcome there. They are unlikely to offer you any promotions? You will have to constantly watch your back. What's the point? It's not as if they are the only employer in town. Go somewhere else where they will value your skills.

And as for scoring a payout from a company / employer (ref. John above). What is the benefit in that? (unless you've got a scheme going with a lawyer and are squeezing 10k from multiple business on an on-going basis, in which case I applaud you!) You still don't have a job. The company will continue to be anti-disabled.

I just do not see the benefit of legal action.

My 35+ years of permanent mobility disability have taught me that if a business is anti-disabled they will always be anti-disabled, and no amount of legal action will change that.

The converse of that is that if a business is receptive to the disabled, work with them.
- it's less stressful (not having to watch your back),
- they will appreciate you,
- they will go out of their way to help you if you work well, and
- you will benefit enormously, both personally and financially.

This post has been edited by HiltonP: 07 December 2007 - 12:03 PM

[Lucydog]

The point it that Government bodies have a duty to positively promote disabled people within the workplace by law, set out within the Disability Equality Duty. They have to prove every 3 years they are doing so. They have a duty to positively discriminate in favour of disabled people when applying for jobs and they can also ring fence jobs for disabled people only. By not doing this Carlisle City Council have failed miserably and have actually discriminated against disabled people.

Personally I wouldnt want the job anyway, and I dont want money either, I just dont want them to do it to other applicants in the future. Councils have a real dread of legal action. having worked for various councils over the last 10 years, the mere hint of legal action will send everyone into a frenzy of panic. So its just a case of making sure they dont do it again thats all.

This post has been edited by Lucydog: 07 December 2007 - 01:44 PM

[HiltonP]

Lucydog, on Dec 7 2007, 12:33 PM, said:

The point it that Government bodies have a duty to positively promote disabled people within the workplace by law, set out within the Disability Equality Duty. They have to prove every 3 years they are doing so. They have a duty to positively discriminate in favour of disabled people when applying for jobs and they can also ring fence jobs for diabled people only. By not doing this Carlisle City Council have failed miserably and have actually discriminated against disabled people.

I can see your motive, and to some extent I share it.
Personally I would name them, and shame them, provided you are sure of your facts.

I hear what you are saying about their "duty", but experience tells me they don't really give a toss about the disabled, or any other minority group. They are just trying to keep their political nose clean. Here in SA, despite government pontifications about human rights, etc, etc the government and councils have the very worst employment record for people with disabilities. The private sector is far more open minded.

P.S. . . . Ring fencing jobs of the disabled is actually discrimination, and does more harm than good. I DEFINITELY would not want to apply for a job which has specifically been set aside for disabled people. You're just painting yourself into a corner from day one!

[woodman]

Lucydog, on Dec 2 2007, 09:43 AM, said:

I dont suppose raising it with the Equality and Human Rights Commission would do any good, but Id like to complain to someone just to get it off my chest. I just cant stand the injustice for everyone who applied.


Ok Rant Over.

I say, go right ahead and report it!

You might also want to let a few hungry news reporters know what you did, and explain why you did it.

...and whatever the outcome, don't take the job. Do it to clean-up the system. I figure that's what you're about, anyway.

[cate]

I think you need to do Lucydog, for the future, not only for you. Staff changes at these places, but bad habits can be carried forward. So you are fighting for the future. If everyone sits back shrugs and says oh well not worth the bother, then this will stay the same of even get worse,, now I am not disabled but my daughter is, and she works, and also studies for the future, as a single girl with her own home, who will pay her mortage etc, one needs to be able to rely on oneself, If everyone just sits back, then there will be no going forward., These organisations need to look forward, any day any one of them could have accident or illness, then there understanding maybe better.
So fight and keep your principals.

Cate

[HiltonP]

Please understand that I am not advocating an acceptance of anti-disabled attitudes.

I am merely suggesting that we look to those companies and organisations which have a more open-minded attitude to us, and direct our energies towards them. In our efforts to bring about positive change we focus a great deal on the bad guys, and often overlook the guys who are on our side.

[Jsec64]

HiltonP, on Dec 7 2007, 12:02 PM, said:

Playing devil's advocate here . . .

What is the point of trying to force a company / organisation / employer to take you onto their staff when they are quite clearly not interested / anti-disabled? You are never going to be welcome there. They are unlikely to offer you any promotions? You will have to constantly watch your back. What's the point? It's not as if they are the only employer in town. Go somewhere else where they will value your skills.

And as for scoring a payout from a company / employer (ref. John above). What is the benefit in that? (unless you've got a scheme going with a lawyer and are squeezing 10k from multiple business on an on-going basis, in which case I applaud you!) You still don't have a job. The company will continue to be anti-disabled.

I just do not see the benefit of legal action.

My 35+ years of permanent mobility disability have taught me that if a business is anti-disabled they will always be anti-disabled, and no amount of legal action will change that.

The converse of that is that if a business is receptive to the disabled, work with them.
- it's less stressful (not having to watch your back),
- they will appreciate you,
- they will go out of their way to help you if you work well, and
- you will benefit enormously, both personally and financially.

Hilton
You have really pissed me off here with your response.
You dont know me, or indeed know what I have been through both physically/mentally in order to try to maintain my own dignity in finding work and providing for my family in a role that I have 20yrs experience in, and in a sector that I had the right skill set.
FYI The sector I have expereince in predominately is AB but this particular role I felt was something that met me halfway. It was never about money !!!! It was about the fact I was regarded as ineffectual because of my disability. If you dont challenge peoples perception then change or acceptance will never happen. I always knew that challenging the process would not provide me with the role - it was about me having my say within a legal framework and my previous experience in employing over 250 people and knowing that the process that was used to assess and measure capabilty within the job spec was subjective, whether AB or disabled.
Quite honestly you need to Engage Your Brain before passing comment about my circumstances and continue to sit on the fence and watch the world go by and also accept that others do want to have the right to challenge people that discriminate.
PISSED OFF

This post has been edited by Jsec64: 10 December 2007 - 11:53 AM

[HiltonP]

John,

Being pissed off is your choice.

I still do not see the point in essentially “fining” a company for their anti-disabled stance? It’s my opinion, I am entitled to it, as is everyone else on this board (within the confines of forum rules).

To follow your present state of mind (namely being pissed off), all a fine will do to such a company is piss them off even further, and probably harden their attitude to disabled job seekers. For those folk who wish to resort to legal action I say “go right ahead”, BUT, be aware that for every action there is an equal, and opposite reaction.

As for not knowing you, I never claimed to know you, but we do appear to share circumstances. I have been profoundly, and permanently disabled for over 45 years, and for the past 30-odd years I have supported a family and a household (and this in a country which provides zip rights to disabled persons). We just have differing views as to where the legal profession, our supposed rights, and employers, meet.

And as for fence sitting, Mmm, a fence sitter I am most certainly not, never have been, and never will be.

As for engaging my brain, well, I choose not to answer that point lest I breach discussion board rules.

[russ1]

HiltonP, on Dec 10 2007, 03:14 PM, said:

I still do not see the point in essentially “fining” a company for their anti-disabled stance? It’s my opinion, I am entitled to it, as is everyone else on this board (within the confines of forum rules).

To follow your present state of mind (namely being pissed off), all a fine will do to such a company is piss them off even further, and probably harden their attitude to disabled job seekers. For those folk who wish to resort to legal action I say “go right ahead”, BUT, be aware that for every action there is an equal, and opposite reaction.

Same goes for anti competition legislation but don't hear of many people suggesting we shouldn't fine those companies seeking to rig their markets because it might upset them. Being overtly anti disabled is against the law in this country and as such those that transgress this law should be fined or else what on earth is the point of having the law and why should anyone uphold it.

You're quite wrong about it especially in the case under discussion which involves a public (government) body who have a public as well as legal duty not to discriminate. The fact that one small part of that body chooses to do so is unacceptable and legal action is the best (and probably only) way to make this action public and so make sure that the organisation as a whole does more to ensure that ALL (and not just most) of it's employees conform to it's accepted standards.

In general if companies and individuals think they can get away with discriminating then they will. If they know they can't and that there are consequences of getting caught then they WILL do more to make sure that they don't. Might not make disabled people popular in the short term but in the long term will enable us to show to the whole of society and not just to a small enlightened part of it our worth and that there's no reason to discriminate.

Your view is short term in the extreme which given your length of time disabled is somewhat surprising.

[HiltonP]

I am not saying it is wrong, or right.
I am merely saying that I do not see the point.

Whether it is a government / state body, or not, litigation is unlikely to change their attitude (which, by the way, reading the original post, I think stinks!). Something else is required to change people’s attitudes. Legal measures will not do that, no matter how “right” or “justified” they might be.

I fail to see how leaving the anti-disabled behind to wallow in their misguided beliefs, and running with businesses who are receptive to our skills, can be construed as being “short-term”. If anything I see litigation has being a short-term solution. I have yet to see a social issue solved in the long-term through legal action. Having said that it must be pointed out that I do not come from a litiguous culture / community.

The original poster sought opinion and I have given mine. At the end of the day they must do what works for them.

[Tinbasher]

Lucydog, on Dec 4 2007, 03:15 PM, said:

I did ask for feedback and in the letter I was told I did not seem to be 'enthusiastic' enough.

Just to clarify this (as a friend who meets Lucy for a coffee now and then) she makes Tigger look like Eyore!

Have you checked your home insurance Lucy it might give you some cover for a lawyer.

T

[Jsec64]

HiltonP, on Dec 10 2007, 03:14 PM, said:

John,

Being pissed off is your choice.

I still do not see the point in essentially “fining” a company for their anti-disabled stance? It’s my opinion, I am entitled to it, as is everyone else on this board (within the confines of forum rules).

To follow your present state of mind (namely being pissed off), all a fine will do to such a company is piss them off even further, and probably harden their attitude to disabled job seekers. For those folk who wish to resort to legal action I say “go right ahead”, BUT, be aware that for every action there is an equal, and opposite reaction.

As for not knowing you, I never claimed to know you, but we do appear to share circumstances. I have been profoundly, and permanently disabled for over 45 years, and for the past 30-odd years I have supported a family and a household (and this in a country which provides zip rights to disabled persons). We just have differing views as to where the legal profession, our supposed rights, and employers, meet.

And as for fence sitting, Mmm, a fence sitter I am most certainly not, never have been, and never will be.

As for engaging my brain, well, I choose not to answer that point lest I breach discussion board rules.

Hi Hilton
Fully appreciate your experience of some 45 years of disability. Do you not think that things have changed over those 45 years ? Certainly here in UK things have changed for the better and thats through the whole of society having an understanding of each others perspectives, including employers around disability issues.
I'm not advocating legal action for the sake of it, in fact I would generally say I would avoid such action, but I do think that it is a 'tool' which should be used to enforced persistent offenders/employers to comply. I can't name the particular company which I took legal action against but they have been in the news in others areas around the country for persistent discrimination towards disability on more than one ocassion.
I did not know this at the time of application and only through the legal process did I found this out. My instigation of the legal process was based on the fact I wanted to know my own weaknesses/shortfalls during my interview process not because I did'nt get the job. It was because the business refused and avoided providing this information to me that I chose to pursue the matter. This is a right of each individual AB or disabled if the individual is so inclined. I showed a clear pattern from the moment of application for the role that I applied for, that the employer was reluctant to acknowledge my capability for the role because of my disability. In fact I would suggest that I was over qualified for the role and I truly wanted that opportunity at that time.
I sincerely apologise for my wording in the previous post to you. It was not meant personally and I hope I have not offended you or other readers. I respect the right to your opinion, but I hate bullies 'workplace or otherwise' [b]and will be the first to stand up for the underdog and this was a case that I thought should have been pursued, not just for me - but for anyone looking to have a fair and impartial interview process for pursuing a job application, disabled or otherwise.
Kind Regards Hilton
John

[HiltonP]

John,

“Do you not think that things have changed over those 45 years?”

We discussed this a while back in another thread, and my view was that in some ways we have advanced, and in others we have not. There is no doubt that levels of access have improved, but the inclusion of disabled in schooling, public transport and areas of employment leave a lot to be desired. If I recall correctly we also mentioned that the “disability experience” varies quite noticeably depending on where in the world one lives. Obviously the US, UK, Oz, NZ experience is far more enlightened than the Italian, Indian, SA ones.

“I sincerely apologise for my wording in the previous post to you.”

John, no need to apologise at all. This topic is a emotive one in which we all hold strong views. You stated yours clearly, and I appreciate and understand that. As I mentioned in my initial post (with my tongue firmly in my cheek!) I would leap to your assistance if you began a systematic campaign of litigation against discriminatory employers! I may not agree with suing one, but suing dozens of them might just get my vote. It certainly would set the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons, and send a message across the industry.

P.S. . . . I believe you have touched on an important issue here, namely one’s self esteem, and having the ability / knowledge to handle employment desputes. I was very naive when I first started work in a wheelchair. I didn’t expect employers to cut me slack, but I did expect them to treat my fairly, which initially they did not. It put me on a fast and rather hard learning curve (along with all the doubts and feelings of possible inadequacy). You are correct, one needs to learn to know yourself (even if it means going through such an exercise as yours), know your skills, know where you stand.

This post has been edited by HiltonP: 11 December 2007 - 12:02 PM

[Slowlegs]

Hi Lucy,

I went for a job a long while back and although they were extremely interested and set up an interview straight away. Unfortunately, when I walked in for my interview the manager said "can I help you?" I told him I was there for my interview. He glanced at me, looked at the copy of my CV and despite saying three hours prior over the phone that he thought I was perfect for the job, suddenly said "you really aren't what we are looking for". I didn't even get past reception. I have a problem with people like that deciding because I don't "look right" I am incapable of performing in the role although I have proved myself to good employers as worthy time and time again. I wouldn't be surprised if the same people who reject the disabled for roles also complain about the "bludgers on welfare" too! I think you should go to the press, express your concerns, tell them you aren't out for money, just a fair deal. Then go and find a good employer, you may even find out one will contact you after your "15 minutes of fame". They are out there, I work for one! Once I get in the door and have a job I am always able to prove myself. It's just the getting there that is difficult.

Good Luck
Slow

[wheeliebear75]

Not that an AB would be UNABLE to do the job.......BUT.......that AB person should at least have training or certification in some sort rehabilitation. I don't know why they were able to count having a disabled family member.......although my Mom has a job working with the disabled I was NOT a factor.

If they have a person working for them who has something like "hidden" as was said earlier....they can still claim a disabled person but with out having to do little if anything different.
My only real thing with working or lack there of is the "I wish I didn't have to work" line.