25 replies to this topic

[silone74]

I am abit frusrated in the fact that paras are not able to play competative rugby i no this has been covered before but i find it a load of SH@T that paras cant do this i dont just want to practise with a team i want to compete in games as part of the team i know people have said to others try starting a para team but thats not easy to do and i find it abit of a bad situation when wheelchair bound people dont get the choice in what sport they want to do i dont want to play basket ball or ice hockey or any other sport but rugby and that aint gonna happen i emailed the british board for wheelchair rugby asking for there advice on how to go about playing that was about 2 months ago and no 1 has bothered to reply i know the rules are on here i have looked at the web sites i just get pissed off that i am NOT ALLOWED to play like i dont have the right i am sure that other paras would love to play and i believe the rules should be changed to not discriminate agaist paras because thats what they are doing.


Silone74

[pawperso]

Mate, it's a game that was designed specifically for the quads who have a huge disadvantage when it comes to playing wheelchair basketball and other wheelchair sports, in many cases it's the only competitive sport many of those quads can play.

I dont think you can really be pissed off about not being able to play, if they open it up to para's then it will just transform into another sport that quads arent physically strong enough for, because it will be dominated by para's.

Bottom line, its a sport for quads.

[Kev-O]

I agree with you. I would love to play but i cant cuz Im a para. I think there should be something like American football for us paras. We would play with an US football an you dont just hit other people you tackle the person with the ball.

pawperso, on Feb 5 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Mate, it's a game that was designed specifically for the quads who have a huge disadvantage when it comes to playing wheelchair basketball and other wheelchair sports, in many cases it's the only competitive sport many of those quads can play.

I dont think you can really be pissed off about not being able to play, if they open it up to para's then it will just transform into another sport that quads arent physically strong enough for, because it will be dominated by para's.

Bottom line, its a sport for quads.

they could have two league's one for paras an one for quads problem solved. We should not be penalized from playing a sport because we are paras

[silone74]

Too right y not have 2 league's and its not just quads that get to play so thats not the point is it and like i said y should we not be allowed to play alot of paras want to play that sport not any other and thats the simple bottom line of it and i am sure that having 2 league's is the way to go i dont want to stop any 1 doing what they want but i am being stopped from playing rugby so i am pissed off and i am entitled to be.



Silone74

[pawperso]

Sorry guys, there is no way you are "entitled" to be pissed of because you are not allowed to play quad rugby. It's a sport that has set rules about who can play and who cant, not because they are discriminating against you, but because it is a game designed for quads.

It's kinda asinine to say that you should be allowed to play, just because you want to and that's all there is to it. Even more so when you start complaining about discrimination.

Should I be allowed to play Goalball just because I decide I want to, and should I start complaining about discrimination when I'm told I cant because I dont meet the requirements as stated in the rules.

Why shouldn't I be allowed to play a sport that was invented for blind people and has rules barring people who are not blind from playing, if I want to play that's all that matters right?! right?

I understand you want to be able to play rugby, it's an awesome sport, but you cant start complaining about discrimination. Thats kinda unrealistic.

How do you think rugby started in the first place? A bunch of quads wanted a game that they could play, so they got together and invented it.

If you want a game of para rugby then you organise it, everything has to start somewhere and if there are so many para's who want to play then it shouldn't be too hard to get two "teams" together to try it out.

[silone74]

Maybe you have the money to do the things that you do i dont and what i would like to do is play rugby and if i am feeling pissed off whats it to you how i feel i posted on here to vent my frustrations on not being able to play rugby and if ya gonna compare it to blind sports thats upto u but paras and quads are both in wheelchairs and like i said it aint just for quads its for other wheelchair users 2 so maybe there should be 2 leagues but if the governing body of the wheelchair rugby in the uk dont bother replying to my email to ask for advice what do you think i am gonna be happy that they dont want to help?????????????????????????????????????



Silone74

[kewlcatkez]

silone74, on Feb 5 2008, 09:48 PM, said:

Too right y not have 2 league's and its not just quads that get to play so thats not the point

Hi Silone74,

Those who are not 'quads' who do qualify to play, do so becuase they have a neurological disability which limits their upper body and hands to a lesser or greater extent - thus making them unable to play w/c Basketball. (thats wheelchair not toilet - the w/c, lol).
OR, they have multiple amputations making balance and ball handling of a Basketball game very difficult or impossible. Either way, it is b/c they fulfill the criteria of having reduced function in their hands and upper trunk.

I understand your ( and others) frustrations, but I also see why it would be unfair to the low pointers to have the sport dominated by paras. Also, as the number of players on the court at any one time can only add up to 8, and each player is given a score dependent upon their function ( muscle firing, balance, 'hands' etc) it would probably wind up with only 1 or 2 players being on the court in the team the para was on!! - Ok I am joking a little. But I am sure you can see what I mean. At the moment the top points you could be classified as would be 3.5 - therefore it would be unfair for a para to be classed as a 3.5 next to a genuine 3.5. To overcome this, they would have to class paras like they do in w/c Basketball and then you may be nearing the upper limit of points on the court for one player ( if compared to the o.5 and other quad players). it wouldn't be fair to do it any other way...
Ultimately I can see why you want to play w/c Rugby, but I also see why at the moment that is not 'fair' to the (very skilled yet lower function'd) players who play.

Also, I am pretty sure that paras can play on a team at practices etc, I just don't think that they can be in Official games/tournies etc. In some cases, when a fledgling club is short of classified players, they will allow other, wheelchair users or even non disabilities ( in chairs) make up the numbers. Once they build up their team, the ones who bridged the gap so to speak can often stay on to help with training ( a player with a higher classification could be pushed further by the "stop-gapper" etc).. Why not go to QuadRugby Talk ( USA site, but has international posters) for further info and perhaps ask a few of the guys ( and girls!) who post there about it?

Please see http://www.gbwr.co.u...ossandJohny.htm ( a video on) Classification in Quad rugby.

Also, I am pretty sure that a few guys on this board play Rugby and may be able let you know if any Paras etc playin their teams at practices etc. if that is all you want at this point, perhaps it is an option - then you may be able to start a para squad from others you meet?

have you posted/pm'd the guys who have posted here at Apparelyzed about w/c rugby? Maybe your nearest info contact is the head office? If they aren't getting back to you, perhaps ring them? or talk to others instead...

http://www.thebullswrc.com/ is the Middlesborough Bulls wheelchair rugby team site. If you have had no joy with the head office, perhaps talking personally to local teams will be of use. ( its perhaps 2 hours away from you tho~). I mention this one rather than the head office one, as you said you have had no joy from them..

If you click HERE there is a list of nearly if not all the w/c rugby clubs in the UK (contacts and other details etc).

I hope this is of use,

Take care,

K

edited to fix link.

Edited by kewlcatkez, 06 February 2008 - 05:17 PM.

[silone74]

Hi yes i have looked into the rules an regs i realise it runs on a points system and i think that i would be able to practice with a team but not compete with them which is what i would love to do,i am frustrated about this, i have looked at the teams in the uk and although it would be good to help out with a team i want to be apart of the team i will open this up and if any other paras want to contact me i would love to hear there veiws on trying to get some kind of team together and if enough interest maybe it will take off.
Thank you for your reply


Silone74

[pawperso]

Thanks kewlcatkez, I was worried this was going to turn nasty. You explained the reasons for para's not playing better than I could.

silone74, go for it. Para rugby would be badass!

[Motor]

pawperso, on Feb 6 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

Thanks kewlcatkez, I was worried this was going to turn nasty. You explained the reasons for para's not playing better than I could.

silone74, go for it. Para rugby would be badass!

Hey guys I have a question. The night of my accident I tore both rotator cuffs and dislocated my wrist. Although I attempted to have wrist fixed, it didn't work very well. Only have a little movement. Furthermore I never had my shoulders repaired and don't plan to. With this damage will I be able to play quad rugby. Upon looking at me it is obvious I have shoulder problems when I move. Therefore I have all 4 limbs affected.

Thanks

[kewlcatkez]

Motor, on Feb 7 2008, 02:32 AM, said:

pawperso, on Feb 6 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

Thanks kewlcatkez, I was worried this was going to turn nasty. You explained the reasons for para's not playing better than I could.

silone74, go for it. Para rugby would be badass!

Hey guys I have a question. The night of my accident I tore both rotator cuffs and dislocated my wrist. Although I attempted to have wrist fixed, it didn't work very well. Only have a little movement. Furthermore I never had my shoulders repaired and don't plan to. With this damage will I be able to play quad rugby. Upon looking at me it is obvious I have shoulder problems when I move. Therefore I have all 4 limbs affected.

Thanks

Hi Motor,

I would think that it would be certainly worth a shot at getting assessed. Players get classified by external Decision Makers, who are trained to assess the tone, Nerve firing and balance etc etc of a Player. The 'hands' or lack of hands is also a big feature. So even with upper body and shoulder problems a person would probably be classed as a high pointer ( as far as I know). The testing is done by individuals with Medical knowledge such as a DR, PT, OT or Nurse with adequate experience.

Digging a little deeper, the rules state that they require that an athlete have a neurological disability that involves at least three limbs, or a non-neurological disability that involves all four limbs.

The hands on assessment is only a small part of the overall Classification process, as the Player is then observed over matches and practices to ensure that their function on the court mirrors the physical assessment(s).

I do relate to your question Motor, since it has been suggested that I look into this type of thing myself. This is b/c I couldn't play Basketball b/c I have dislocations in my shoulders, elbows, wrists and every joint basically, followed by associated tendon and some nerve damage in my upper body and hands. In my case, because I dislocate etc so much, It may not be a great idea to play w/c Rugby either though! There is currently nothing that can be done to correct my 'issues' since they are dependent upon faulty connective tissue which has become worse over time due to each daily trauma adding up ( and causing further loosening). Oh, and of course my paralysis. That said, I am not convinced that I would be able to fulfill the criteria anyway..

I would recommend that you contact the local rugby Team and ask them for their advice. I am sure that they would be up for at least having you assessed/classed as many teams are short of high pointers I believe ( I was told).

Good Luck!

Take care,

K

ps, let us know how you go on if you do look into it..

pawperso, on Feb 6 2008, 06:58 PM, said:

Thanks kewlcatkez, I was worried this was going to turn nasty. You explained the reasons for para's not playing better than I could.

silone74, go for it. Para rugby would be badass!

Hi Pawperso,

Thanks for the "thanks" lol I would like to think that I averted the 'nasties', but of late I seem to fuel things! ( in the hero thread!)..
I understand the frustrations in both sides of this thread, so posted to both..Glad it worked some.

Thanks again,

Take care,

K

Edited by kewlcatkez, 07 February 2008 - 10:01 AM.

[Bulky]

Hi y'all. I am a C5 incomplete quad and play wheelchair rugby as a 1.0. Every disability sport has a classification process for 'grading' or eligibility to play. If anybody wants to play wheelchair rugby, they need to get classified. If you get 'classed out' of wheelchair rugby, you'll have to find another sport or invent your own.

[kewlcatkez]

Bulky, on Feb 7 2008, 09:48 AM, said:

Hi y'all. I am a C5 incomplete quad and play wheelchair rugby as a 1.0. Every disability sport has a classification process for 'grading' or eligibility to play. If anybody wants to play wheelchair rugby, they need to get classified. If you get 'classed out' of wheelchair rugby, you'll have to find another sport or invent your own.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my post yesterday Thanks for your experience/input.

Take care,
K

[Bulky]

kewlcatkez, on Feb 7 2008, 09:00 PM, said:

Bulky, on Feb 7 2008, 09:48 AM, said:

Hi y'all. I am a C5 incomplete quad and play wheelchair rugby as a 1.0. Every disability sport has a classification process for 'grading' or eligibility to play. If anybody wants to play wheelchair rugby, they need to get classified. If you get 'classed out' of wheelchair rugby, you'll have to find another sport or invent your own.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my post yesterday Thanks for your experience/input.

Take care,
K

No worries.

[megatrig]

As an ex wheelchair rugby player .......

long story .....

Ok my 2ps worth!!

A long long time ago ....

A bunch of quads in Canada got "fed" up with trying to play basketball and basically having very "able" paras "running" cirles around them.

So they wandered off and chucked a volley ball around and pushed across a goal ine to score ........................... and Murderball was born ...... !!!

I started playing 20 years ago whilst still in hospital. Paras joined in and it wasn't a problem for training to an extent!!!!!

HOWEVER!! If you open the game up to someone ... ANYONE!! wjho has more "ability" ie very good hand movement, upper body strength, etc.

THEN QUADS/TETRAS END UP SITTING THERE TWIDDLING THERE THUMBS (NO PUN INTENDED) AS THE PARAS AGAIN "RUN" CIRCLES AROUND "SLOW" TERAS!!!

I don't want to sound harsh here I'm just trying to drive the point home as it were!!

The CLASSIFICATION that you go through means you do get a level playing field and a really good competitive game called Wheelchair Rugby.

Allow "just anyone" toplay and the whole game falls apart

AND QUADS/TETRAS have to go off and reinvenr the sport again as itwre in order to be able to play rather than sit on a court watching faster more able whwelchair users to fly around them.

Go watch a wheelchair basketball game and see how fastit is then a wheelchairrugby game. Fast but in different ways.

Ok thats my rant over with. Not meant to sound nasty but pleaae do get the idea??!!??

David

[ems]

Why dont you want to play basketball? It can be just as aggressive sometimes, especially when you play all your fouls ;) I play in Mens and womens basketball ( cos I'm a girlie), It is *supposed* to be a non contact sport, but you should see the state of my chair!!!!

Have you tried it out yet?

Emma.

[Kev-O]

megatrig, on Feb 25 2008, 02:21 PM, said:

As an ex wheelchair rugby player .......

long story .....

Ok my 2ps worth!!

A long long time ago ....

A bunch of quads in Canada got "fed" up with trying to play basketball and basically having very "able" paras "running" cirles around them.

So they wandered off and chucked a volley ball around and pushed across a goal ine to score ........................... and Murderball was born ...... !!!

I started playing 20 years ago whilst still in hospital. Paras joined in and it wasn't a problem for training to an extent!!!!!

HOWEVER!! If you open the game up to someone ... ANYONE!! wjho has more "ability" ie very good hand movement, upper body strength, etc.

THEN QUADS/TETRAS END UP SITTING THERE TWIDDLING THERE THUMBS (NO PUN INTENDED) AS THE PARAS AGAIN "RUN" CIRCLES AROUND "SLOW" TERAS!!!

I don't want to sound harsh here I'm just trying to drive the point home as it were!!

The CLASSIFICATION that you go through means you do get a level playing field and a really good competitive game called Wheelchair Rugby.

Allow "just anyone" toplay and the whole game falls apart

AND QUADS/TETRAS have to go off and reinvenr the sport again as itwre in order to be able to play rather than sit on a court watching faster more able whwelchair users to fly around them.

Go watch a wheelchair basketball game and see how fastit is then a wheelchairrugby game. Fast but in different ways.

Ok thats my rant over with. Not meant to sound nasty but pleaae do get the idea??!!??

David

Why not have two leaugs? one for para's an one for quad's

[ems]

I do agree with para's not playing w/c rugby, I hate it when able bodied ppl come to play basketball, you know, they can lean down pick up the ball and get back up again, they can reach over left and right and all the way forwards, they put both hands over their head to shoot. I don't actually understand WHY they want to play, I play cos I cant play able bod basketball, I don't understand someone wanting to zoom round in a wheelchair making it harder for themselves when they could run up, jump and take a shot. Though what really pisses me off is when we go into the bar after practice, and they stay in the bloody chair, and you have to ask them to get out of the way cos they don't understand chair etiquette, we chair users, I think, are much more aware of ppl around us, and without having to be asked we are ready to move when someone comes past. Some of them them actually go and bloody use OUR Toilet too!!! LOL what a cheek!! I personally think that if you they did entertain you and let para's into the sport, I'm not sure that you would be really welcomed with outstretched arms!!
Us para's have got so much more choice of sporting activities, there's really no need to go for someone else's sport.

It wouldn't be fair to go and take over another sport just *cos you want to*. I bet if half of them could, they would have wanted to play another sport, its just thats really all there is left after erm archery, bowling and curbing!

You could skirt round all those guys on the court, leaving them FEELING DISADVANTAGED themselves, why is that fair?!?!

We have 4 T4-T6 (1 POINT) players in our team, 2 of them made last yr. We need them, they enable higher point players to get on, but we're a team. We also have 2 able bod players (5 point), neither have made 1st div yet, and my guess is because we believe as a team they shouldn't get there! We cant not let them join the team, cos it is allowed in w/c basketball.

If you feel your being discriminated against, welcome to the world! If you still feel discontent about it, why dont you go and sue them for discrimination!!!

It is really like that thing years ago when we first got our hand-cycles, no one stopped us racing in marathons against racing chairs, do you think that was fair? NO, we had an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, and really its just those two words that sum up you wanting to play competitively along side quads.


Now, I would change my view completely if all you wanted was a new "para only league".

Did you play rugby before btw?

ems.

Edited by ems, 25 February 2008 - 07:31 PM.

[Bulky]

Yes, the game was originally called Quad Rugby (still is in USA), but it's internationally name is Wheelchair Rugby. It ain't just for quads; it is a sport played in wheelchairs by participants, MAINLY quads, that meet the classification process. The IWRF will not change the rules on classification. If a person wishing to play wheelchair rugby is classed above 3.5 they are 'classed out' and not permitted to play.

As for a 'para league'; would double leg amps be allowed to play or is it paras only? Silly question I suppose; nearly as silly as why paras can't competitively play wheelchair rugby. C-L-A-S-S-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N!

[silone74]

As i stated in my first post i know that i can not play i have been through all of the rules and i am trying to get some kind of game for paras but if all i get is quads going on about the classification an no help and advice and as i said before i have been intouch with the wheelchair rugby council and have had no responsne so i am a little bit at a loss as to what your problem is with trying to help a para out in getting a SECOND league going and yes i did play rugby as an AB and that is a sport i want to play in a chair as i think it looks to be a brilliant game and i also want to be part of the team,i have tried basket ball and it aint for me i have trouble throwing the ball high enough to get in the hoop, maybe i put my thoughts abit strongly about being not allowed to play i was at the time pissed off with a lot of things,i have asked for people to contact me if they wish to try and sort a team or practice session out i want to try and do this so i would like some advice please from the players and any 1 that can help in getting the ball rolling so to speak and i didnt want to roll on any bodies toes


Silon74

[Bernard Briggs]

silone74, on Feb 27 2008, 12:25 AM, said:

As i stated in my first post i know that i can not play i have been through all of the rules and i am trying to get some kind of game for paras but if all i get is quads going on about the classification an no help and advice and as i said before i have been intouch with the wheelchair rugby council and have had no responsne so i am a little bit at a loss as to what your problem is with trying to help a para out in getting a SECOND league going and yes i did play rugby as an AB and that is a sport i want to play in a chair as i think it looks to be a brilliant game and i also want to be part of the team,i have tried basket ball and it aint for me i have trouble throwing the ball high enough to get in the hoop, maybe i put my thoughts abit strongly about being not allowed to play i was at the time pissed off with a lot of things,i have asked for people to contact me if they wish to try and sort a team or practice session out i want to try and do this so i would like some advice please from the players and any 1 that can help in getting the ball rolling so to speak and i didnt want to roll on any bodies toes


Silon74

you could always cheat and pretend your a Quad, im sure theres just as much cheating in disabled sport I.E. disability clasifaction as abled bodied sport.
By the way when I was a kid I use to go to Bridlington on holidays , a lovely spot

[megatrig]

Bernard Briggs, on Feb 28 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

silone74, on Feb 27 2008, 12:25 AM, said:

As i stated in my first post i know that i can not play i have been through all of the rules and i am trying to get some kind of game for paras but if all i get is quads going on about the classification an no help and advice and as i said before i have been intouch with the wheelchair rugby council and have had no responsne so i am a little bit at a loss as to what your problem is with trying to help a para out in getting a SECOND league going and yes i did play rugby as an AB and that is a sport i want to play in a chair as i think it looks to be a brilliant game and i also want to be part of the team,i have tried basket ball and it aint for me i have trouble throwing the ball high enough to get in the hoop, maybe i put my thoughts abit strongly about being not allowed to play i was at the time pissed off with a lot of things,i have asked for people to contact me if they wish to try and sort a team or practice session out i want to try and do this so i would like some advice please from the players and any 1 that can help in getting the ball rolling so to speak and i didnt want to roll on any bodies toes


Silon74

you could always cheat and pretend your a Quad, im sure theres just as much cheating in disabled sport I.E. disability clasifaction as abled bodied sport.
By the way when I was a kid I use to go to Bridlington on holidays , a lovely spot

Silone74

your last post redeemed yourself in my eyes!! lol I hope you are in a happier mood!!??

Well then .... ok

I'm a tad out of touch but there just aren't enough Quads or "people" who "CLASSIFY" already to make it easy to run the wheelchair rugby set up that easily. By that I mean if your dedicated you sit behind the whel of your car a hell of a lot just to train never mind league games!1!!1

So to get a group of "people" to start up a para wheelchair rugby game would be a nightmare!!

Your aiming to start a brand new game up from scratch. Very difficult!!

I will try and add more thoughts to this .. and not just negative dismisive ones!

Cheers

David

ps. As for Cheating in classification ohhhhh don't get me started there!!

[silone74]

Cheers for that it was not intended to start a riot LOL.
Cheatin LOL i dont think i want to go down that road it would take away the chance for some 1 else to play and if thats how it came across before thats not what i was trying to say.
Any way i think Bridlington has changed a little over the years LOL it has its good points i think? The weather isn't 1 of them lol.

I realise to start a new game is going to be hard work but the advice from any experianced in the is an outs of trying to start would be much apprieciated.

I could start playing on my own but change the game to shopping trolley smash it seems to be the norm round here LOL.

Cheers
Silone74

[ScottFoster]

Kev-O, on Feb 5 2008, 09:35 PM, said:

I agree with you. I would love to play but i cant cuz Im a para. I think there should be something like American football for us paras. We would play with an US football an you dont just hit other people you tackle the person with the ball.

pawperso, on Feb 5 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Mate, it's a game that was designed specifically for the quads who have a huge disadvantage when it comes to playing wheelchair basketball and other wheelchair sports, in many cases it's the only competitive sport many of those quads can play.

I dont think you can really be pissed off about not being able to play, if they open it up to para's then it will just transform into another sport that quads arent physically strong enough for, because it will be dominated by para's.

Bottom line, its a sport for quads.

they could have two league's one for paras an one for quads problem solved. We should not be penalized from playing a sport because we are paras

There is American Football for paras in the US. I'm not really sure what type of advice you're looking for but I'd be interested in answering questions for you. I play rugby in the US. If you can find 8 people with chairs to get together and play and I don't see why you can't start small and build up. We've had paras and ab's at our practices over the years and it's definitely challenging. If you have questions I'll answer them if possible.

Scott

Edited by ScottFoster, 03 April 2008 - 11:48 PM.

[warnova]

Im a para with great trunk and upper body and just started practicing with the mens team here in Calgary Canada. Yes i would love to compete but rules are rules and not everyone gets what they want. When the quad team starts flying i would love to try start a para team but until then ill just do my part and help as im grateful of the AB's that have helped me with other sports. Do i get pissed off? Certainly not. Its in a wierd sense nice to be on the other side of the fence for a change. So if it happens great but if it does not me participating in practicing helps this team build speed and all the other ingredients for success. Ill stand by the rules and try convince paras to come try it out and if theirs interest then ill work from there until then there is basketball, sledge hockey, tennis, and numerous other sports for me. So my advice is to try do as i do and enjoy your para ability by supporting those quads.

[Parachute]

silone74, on 05 February 2008 - 09:48 PM, said:

Too right y not have 2 league's and its not just quads that get to play so thats not the point is it and like i said y should we not be allowed to play alot of paras want to play that sport not any other and thats the simple bottom line of it and i am sure that having 2 league's is the way to go i dont want to stop any 1 doing what they want but i am being stopped from playing rugby so i am pissed off and i am entitled to be.



Silone74

I know it's an old thread but I am a quad and I can't play. Wheelchair rugby is graded on hand use. Why don't you look into playing wheelchair rugby, anyone at all can play. You DO NOT need to be a wheelchair user.


Parachute