[WinginSue]

The things I have learned reading this forum are incredible. I appreciate the feedback I've gotten on my other thread.

I just realized that there is some info that I need. My character has a T5 injury from a motorcycle accident. I can relate to the motorcyle because I ride. I do have a couple of questions:

1. For someone with an injury in this area, were the vertebrae damaged as well? What I am wondering is if the spine can be injured without the vertebrae being damaged. For that matter the discs? Also, would a person be immobilized for a while to see if there is improvement when the swelling goes down.


Thanks.

Suzette

[kewlcatkez]

WinginSue, on Feb 26 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

The things I have learned reading this forum are incredible. I appreciate the feedback I've gotten on my other thread.

I just realized that there is some info that I need. My character has a T5 injury from a motorcycle accident. I can relate to the motorcyle because I ride. I do have a couple of questions:

1. For someone with an injury in this area, were the vertebrae damaged as well?

Could have been, depends. Some people will have compression from the discs for a prolonged period of time, leading to damage to the cord. ~ not as likely to be the result of the bike accident..

With re: the discs, are you thinking like in Sciatica? rather than a cord injury? Discs themselves don't actually 'slip' ( how many times have we heard people say that?) or even prolapse in most cases, but they burst. Trauma due to forces or degeneration leads to the fibrous covering being torn and the insides squelching out and pressing on the sciatic nerve for example (this is not usually heading for a SCI, but can in some extreme cases).

Then the vertebrae can dislocate again damaging the cord, but could still be intact. ~ more likely to be as a result of a bike accident..

The vertebrae can be shattered, broken and fractured ~ again could be consistent with a high velocity bike accident, ie when hit a tree of something, but the shatters are usually consistent with GSWs ( gun shot wounds).

etc etc..

Quote

What I am wondering is if the spine can be injured without the vertebrae being damaged. For that matter the discs? Also, would a person be immobilized for a while to see if there is improvement when the swelling goes down.


Thanks.

Suzette

Yes to the discs too, see above.

Nowadays, immobilisation is usually averted by using rods and plates to secure the bone work and decompression to release any discs etc. If surgery is not done, then yes, there can be traction and a period of rest. Research shows that 'bed rest' is not always the best thing for neurologically compromised people. This is because of the risk of contracture, muscle wasting and respiratory infections etc. So it doesn't feature like it did a while back.

research has also shown that 'spinal shock' and 'swelling' is more than as a result of the bone and soft tissues. Being a spinal cord injury, it is more about the neurological system desperately trying to connect wiring..Immediately after SCI, there is no reflex action below the level of lesion. This is during 'spinal shock' -where the impulses are flooded.

As the spinal shock lessens, the reflexes return in a very jerky and twitching fashion - leading to spontaenous contractions of the muscles below lesion. Sometimes, these are mistaken for purposeful movement. Due to the misconnection between the Brain and spinal cord, these spasms are of course involuntary/unintentional, and unpredictable. This happens regardless of bed rest or none...Sometimes PT ( physiotherapy) can actually be the best thing to do, to try and retrain the body by doing repeating motion exercises to tap into the 'memory' of the neural pathways..


I hope this helps, and I am not meaning to be mean, but I agree with the others who said that you should stick to what you know...You obviously would have to extensively research this and it may come across a bit "trying too hard" after doing so. I would advise that you stick with your situation and if you wish, perhaps [your character could] strike up a friendship or something with someone else who is a chair user [in the book's storyline] ...that way you can touch on the subject and it won't be forced..you will be learning with the reader..

Just my opinion... no offense either..

Take care,

K

edited to add clarity shown in the [ ]'s

This post has been edited by kewlcatkez: 26 February 2008 - 10:36 PM

[WinginSue]

kewlcatkez, on Feb 26 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

I hope this helps, and I am not meaning to be mean, but I agree with the others who said that you should stick to what you know...You obviously would have to extensively research this and it may come across a bit "trying too hard" after doing so. I would advise that you stick with your situation and if you wish, perhaps [your character could] strike up a friendship or something with someone else who is a chair user [in the book's storyline] ...that way you can touch on the subject and it won't be forced..you will be learning with the reader..

Just my opinion... no offense either..

Take care,

K

edited to add clarity shown in the [ ]'s

Wow! Thanks for the assistance. No offense taken. I'm thinking of taking everyone's advice and moving the injury to a second character. You are right that we will all learn together. I started with this idea but I'm finding, after reading so much here and starting a workshop on creative writing, that I have much research to do. I like what you said about the reader and I learning together.

[Motor]

WinginSue, on Feb 26 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

kewlcatkez, on Feb 26 2008, 01:06 PM, said:

I hope this helps, and I am not meaning to be mean, but I agree with the others who said that you should stick to what you know...You obviously would have to extensively research this and it may come across a bit "trying too hard" after doing so. I would advise that you stick with your situation and if you wish, perhaps [your character could] strike up a friendship or something with someone else who is a chair user [in the book's storyline] ...that way you can touch on the subject and it won't be forced..you will be learning with the reader..

Just my opinion... no offense either..

Take care,

K

edited to add clarity shown in the [ ]'s

Wow! Thanks for the assistance. No offense taken. I'm thinking of taking everyone's advice and moving the injury to a second character. You are right that we will all learn together. I started with this idea but I'm finding, after reading so much here and starting a workshop on creative writing, that I have much research to do. I like what you said about the reader and I learning together.

Hi I'm Richie and had a motorcycle accident 3 years ago and am a T-6 incomplete para. I had sever swelling that pushed against my spine but as they say no actual damage to my cord. I really don't know the medical answer but do know after 3 years I slowly improved and as a matter of fact returned to therapy this week and am walking 40 feet with a walker. Still not very functional but good for morale. I will send you my story.

[hanguk]

[[quote name='kewlcatkez' post='53131' date='Feb 26 2008, 01:06 PM']
I hope this helps, and I am not meaning to be mean, but I agree with the others who said that you should stick to what you know...You obviously would have to extensively research this and it may come across a bit "trying too hard" after doing so. I would advise that you stick with your situation and if you wish, perhaps [your character could] strike up a friendship or something with someone else who is a chair user [in the book's storyline] ...that way you can touch on the subject and it won't be forced..you will be learning with the reader..

Just my opinion... no offense either..

I agree with this... it's a bit like I felt in rehab when a group of staff members decided to spend the day in wheelchairs to "get a feeling of what it's like" and they felt they learned a lot from it (real eye-opener, they said). I guess they were trying to relate to the patients better. They could use a chair for a month and still not know. I think they could get a good idea of how people act around people in chairs, but everything else is not authentic. Including the fact that they knew they could get out of the chair after 1 day. I just get an uncomfortable feeling when people try to do this.

[nomis]

Yup, you could get hopelessly complicated if you approach this without being specific from the start. There's any variety of ways the damage could present itself.

You're on the right track with a thoracic injury with motorbikes because that is common. One typical injury is a ripping of the brachial plexus caused maybe by an arm roughly wrenched above the head. But that's not likely to result in paraplegia because it involves the nerves outside of the spinal cord. But it will paralyse an arm.

If the person is catapulted over the handlebars like a projectile they are going to fly like a bullet and maybe hit head-on into a wall. If that doesn't pop their head then it'll likely crush two vertabrae (at least) together in a compact fracture which will result in paraplelgia.

To my way of thinking, having a scenario where the back (vertabra) is not broken but paraplegia results is a complicated route. If the spinal cord is damaged by ruptured blood vessels and swelling alone then you'd also expect some peripheral nerve damage as in a brachial plexus injury considering they've come off a bike.

I'm wondering why you chose for your character to have a motorbike accident, with all its images of wild, reckless, speedy, violent, for the resulting injury to be some vague soft tissue complication. What's wrong with keeping it simple with a violent smashing of the back and spinal cord?

Of course, you may intend to illustrate the complexity and complication of incomplete spinal damage in which case ignore the above.

I'd suggest you create a scenario of the accident that fits the injury outcome. That could help clarify a few things.

This post has been edited by nomis: 27 February 2008 - 12:31 PM

[WinginSue]

I want to thank Richie for his story. It's very good!

nomis, on Feb 27 2008, 04:28 AM, said:

I'm wondering why you chose for your character to have a motorbike accident, with all its images of wild, reckless, speedy, violent, for the resulting injury to be some vague soft tissue complication. What's wrong with keeping it simple with a violent smashing of the back and spinal cord?

I chose the motorbike idea because I'm a rider. It is an area I'm familiar with. I also know of several people who died from biking accidents. It's ironic because in the story I had in mind, the person injured on a bike is not from their fault (which I've decided will be a friend of the main character on the advice of everyone here). It is a car that hits the person while they are stopped. I had this happen to a friend a few years ago. It put him in the hospital for a few weeks from some broken bones but that was it. I like your question of back smashing and spinal cord though. I'm thinking that would be good. This is one of those weird ideas that a person gets then discovers the devil is in the details.

nomis, on Feb 27 2008, 04:28 AM, said:

Of course, you may intend to illustrate the complexity and complication of incomplete spinal damage in which case ignore the above.

I'd suggest you create a scenario of the accident that fits the injury outcome. That could help clarify a few things.

I like your idea above. It would be better in the longrun. Thank you so much for your input.

This post has been edited by WinginSue: 27 February 2008 - 10:21 PM

[nomis]

What I was trying to say but using too many words was that motorbike accidents usually are violent resulting in violent injuries, such as a broken back.

[qbounce]

I just read in my "New Mobility" magazine of a book about a para who takes a humorous point of view on an otherwise serious subject, because, after all, alot of rants in this site are pretty funny!

The book is called "The Best Seat in the House" by Allen Rucker.

A small example of one story talks about how, at a party, the only person who apporoaches him, sees the wheelchair, and finds Allen akin to this guys medical misfunction in the hopes that Allen will relate to his problems (of course not knowing that this isn't his idea of a good time).

I seem to recall a rant in here recently told about a similar situation. Anyway, I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds like an intersting read.

I posted on this thread b/c maybe reading anothers take on things might give a better perspective on writing your own story. . .good luck.

[WinginSue]

qbounce, on Mar 11 2008, 11:31 AM, said:

The book is called "The Best Seat in the House" by Allen Rucker.

I posted on this thread b/c maybe reading anothers take on things might give a better perspective on writing your own story. . .good luck.

Thanks for the info. I will definately check it out. It sounds like a great read.

Sue