17 replies to this topic

[crippledmook]

Anyone with a broken chair I would be interested to know info about where your chairs have broken how, when, why, which parts wear out first. make, model, age of wheelchair, etc....

I would like info but also if anyone has any interesting chairs broken in interesting ways in the UK that would like the chair to go to a good graveyard let me know.

Post pictures if possible, and as much info as you have the time or inclination to.

I am sure all the info will be of help to me, but also everyone else should benfit in future chair selection.

Regards

[ems]

why?

[crippledmook]

ems, on Mar 6 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

why?

Why not?

[russ1]

TiLite - the spring keeping the catch for the back release in place has broken - when reported to the local rep - his reply "Oh yes they all do that". Not a huge problem but flippin annoying sometimes as the back doesn't lock in the open position now. 2yr old TiLite used infrequently as a second chair.

[guest1]

I have to say that the things I find that need replacing and damage most often are:

1) main tyres (rubber seems to wear soo quickly, especially primo v track)
2) scratched damaged push rims that shred hands (caused by clumsy manouvers round walls/doors)
3) broken wornout castor barrel bearings (bad if you live in a town with cobbled streets or take curbs badly)
4) castor wheels and bearings (castor wheels run fast the smaller your castors the quicker they spin and wear)
5) folding mechanisms (seatbacks and and x frame folding chair braces)
6) footplate (seems to get grated off going down slopes or up curbs)

I have had a number of chairs that have cracked frames though normally this happens after 8-10 years and due to fatigue in normal use. Some frames are worse designed than others and fatigue quicker, generally sharp angles where weld joints are made and the force is acting at a higher angle causes stress concentrations that lead to quicker fatigue and failure.

*I have heard some bad things about quickie revolutions tube fatigue, though have no experience of the chair myself.

*I have seen kuchall competitions with weld cracks at the joint btween main tube and axle support tube.

* spinergy spox with 16 spokes or less have had some problems


I think if your chair starts to squeak or rattle is a bad sign, get the noises sorted as soon as possible as loose parts cause higher stress loads, vibration, and wear. If you keep all parts of your chair tight , well adjusted, and oiled it will last much much MUCH longer. Its best to give your chair a quick lookover before you get in it every morning. I won't go into details here but check every moving part is tight and moves smoothly. Give things an oil monthly, dealer check yearly, etc.........

I think most of that service and checks stuff should be in your chair user manual.

Aluminium generally fatigues and cracks worse than steel or titanium, I have heard bad things about composites and stress cracks (carbon fibre).

Really depends on how you use your chair and how much care you take with it as to how long it will last, some people destroy a chair in 3-4 years, while others may use the same type of chair yet make it last 10 years or more.

Interesting links to info about wheelchair testing, fatigue, and design.

http://ieeexplore.ie...arnumber=867879
http://connection.eb...63272FF3.ehctc1
http://nsf-pad.bme.u.../chapter_19.pdf
http://www.wheelchai...tschler_01.html
http://etd.library.p...chlerAndrew.pdf
http://www.algor.com...air/default.asp
http://www.herlpitt.org/references.htm
http://linkinghub.el...003999304001844
http://www.weka.net....af?OpenDocument
http://ieeexplore.ie...arnumber=999790
http://www.dinf.ne.j...a96/page189.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm....;indexed=google



Lot of random info above some may be right some may be wrong, some of use some not, don't blame me if any of it causes you problems, and please excuse any spelling or grammatical errors.

[guest1]

guest1, on Mar 6 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

*I have seen kuchall competitions with weld cracks at the joint btween main tube and axle support tube.

Just a few pics of kuschall competition, it is a 10 year old chair, crack started to appear in year 9 of use. The tube material is aluminium (I think its 6082 grade). I would describe use as heavy active user usage. I must say I quite like kuschall chairs. The vario axe (as seen on the competition in photos) has some minor problems also.


Sorry about quality of photos, I need a decent macro lens and better lighting, and bigger attachment limit on the forum. You should be able to see the damage on photo I have inserted a sheet of paper into the crack. At present the chair still works and runs smoothly, but I would not take it outside the house as a few vibrations and it will break. If I had a decent marco lens I could have got a photo that showed the microcrystaline structure of the metal and the fatigue face, but I haven't so you can't ;)

[guest1]

Edited by guest1, 06 March 2008 - 01:14 PM.

[russ1]

Re the cracked weld

Why don't you just go along to your local metalworking firm and get it welded up? Aluminium is harder to weld than steel but anyone familiar with welding it will be able to do it for you, probably for a negligable cost.

Ti welding however is a different kettle of fish ............

[guest1]

russ1, on Mar 6 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

Re the cracked weld

Why don't you just go along to your local metalworking firm and get it welded up? Aluminium is harder to weld than steel but anyone familiar with welding it will be able to do it for you, probably for a negligable cost.

Ti welding however is a different kettle of fish ............

Yeah, that could work and then again it may not?.

I could blind you with my vast knowledge of welding but my knowledge of welding is very poor. I have to say that a good welder with a lot of experience in welding and the right equipment makes welding any metal seem easy. As far as I know titanium welds as well a alu given the right setup. I am not a welder but have managed to weld steel to a reasonable standard when I was ablebodied, I once tried alu and found there was much more setup required, you need to have a preheat oven as alu conducts heat very fast, you need a decent acid cleaner to remove as much oxidation as possible, you need to get the weld current just right or arc will just blow through the tube, and you need a mig welder and argon sheild gas and the right alloy of weld wire for the metal you are welding, once you have done all the welding you have to anneal or heat treat the welded part or it can be as much as 40% weaker than the orginal strength. I think in factory conditions much time is spent setting up and testing welding operations and the parts that are produced. In a one off situation the result would be crap in comparison. I would guess it would cost £100 to get a reasonable job done and that still may not be much good, also I live out in the sticks and I doubt there is anyone close that could handle welding it, that said I really don't know enough to say for sure.

My instinct says the cheapest best method to repair the crack would be a couple of triangles of 3mm alu sheet bolted through each corner either side of the tubes and a load of expoxy round the whole area. But really I could not be bothered at present with either as I have a number of other spare chairs.

Cheers anyway for the suggestion.

[crippledmook]

ems, on Mar 6 2008, 09:39 AM, said:

why?

Well ems, as it seems from your profile that you're a sexy looking basketball gimp, If you tell me how your chair gets damaged I will return the favour and explain why I want to know. Rather than just giving you a rather useless requisitive response.

[crippledmook]

Interesting links about wheelchair testing and failures....

http://books.google....F...UW5Xo&hl=en
http://books.google....hl=en#PPA169,M1
http://www.wheelchai...sna/megan2.html
http://rehabtech.eng...ympwc/index.asp
http://www.whirlwind...g/standards.htm

http://www.mhra.gov....onSP/CON2032398
http://linkinghub.el...003999301113237
http://www.ragged-ed...03/0303ft2.html
http://books.google....4...nYfHU&hl=en
http://www.rercwm.pi..._RESNA2001.html

[ems]

Well I don't ever seem to have a chair long enough to get it well and truly damaged. Cosmetically, they are all damaged.. push rims in the last few years I haven't tended to damage atall. I tend to go for frames that are shut tight, I like rigid to mean rigid! BA have twisted a frame for me on the way back from Thailand a couple of years ago, that was righted by 1) their insurance company and buying a frame custom made that would fit in an overhead airline locker for when I travel.

On the point of getting rid of chairs, I give them to a charity that takes them to Thailand. My last trip over there I took 8 chairs. Everyone I know in a chair either gets a new chair every 5 years, or at least every couple of years from access to work. So within just our basketball group we managed to put together 8 chairs, and we all donated a set of solid tyres, a toolkit for the chair and a cushion for each chair. They then go to Bangkok general to a doc there who has a list of kids and adults requiring chairs from all round Thailand.

emma.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by ems, 15 March 2008 - 04:50 PM.

[kewlcatkez]

ems, on Mar 15 2008, 04:40 PM, said:

Well I don't ever seem to have a chair long enough to get it well and truly damaged. Cosmetically, they are all damaged.. push rims in the last few years I haven't tended to damage atall. I tend to go for frames that are shut tight, I like rigid to mean rigid! BA have twisted a frame for me on the way back from Thailand a couple of years ago, that was righted by 1) their insurance company and buying a frame custom made that would fit in an overhead airline locker for when I travel.

On the point of getting rid of chairs, I give them to a charity that takes them to Thailand. My last trip over there I took 8 chairs. Everyone I know in a chair either gets a new chair every 5 years, or at least every couple of years from access to work. So within just our basketball group we managed to put together 8 chairs, and we all donated a set of solid tyres, a toolkit for the chair and a cushion for each chair. They then go to Bangkok general to a doc there who has a list of kids and adults requiring chairs from all round Thailand.

emma.

Hi Ems,

This is fantastic! Not the twisted chair frame, I hasten to add, but the chairs to Bangkok. How did you find out about the work they do? It really is a reality checker to think of those without even a very basic old ironside looking chair to use... So Good on yer...

K

[ems]

the charity was set up just after the tsunami, by an american couple who were over there at the time, to help the people injured by the tsunami. But then they found out that spinally injured patients out there were never given chairs, they were *used* by their families to beg on the streets. There are some horrific stories. Given a chair, they could at least be moved properly by family and friends instead being lulled around on a blanket!! honestly you would cry your eyes out if you saw it.

When I went out there the second time, I took chairs and some med supplies that were donated. They had a 16 bed ward in Bangkok general filled with about 50 patients all with spinal injures. Some died some lived. Some were on beds, but most were on the floor. If they couldn't pay the 30 Baht a day fee they were taken out of the hospital. it was shocking. And there i was in a brand new chair.. and using the toilet and chucking my single use caths in the bin.. So I went out a third time. Half of the people that were in the second time I was there had died, some had left and were never seen again, and only 5 were still using out patients. The families want them to stay as disabled as possible so they can earn money, nevermind thier wellbeing! Its upsetting and just so unbelievable. I'm sure theres a lot worse round the world too!
The chair in the picture was re-made care of Cyclone and given to a kid out there. Cyclone also made an anti tip for the chair too free of charge. Was rather nice of Stuart Dunn I thought!

Emma.

[kewlcatkez]

ems, on Mar 15 2008, 05:00 PM, said:

The chair in the picture was re-made care of Cyclone and given to a kid out there. Cyclone also made an anti tip for the chair too free of charge. Was rather nice of Stuart Dunn I thought!

Emma.

Yes, it was. I believe that Davinci w/chairs http://www.davinciwheelchairs.co.uk are very similar in that respect. I suppose as they are also in chairs they have that perspective which other companies may not have.

I am sure that I can't begin to imagine what goes on in many parts of the world, it really is heartbreaking just scratching the surface. Yet some are so far below the "poverty line" that they have desperation...... I know this is not the same, but over the years in Nursing I cam across so many people in destitute situations unimaginable in a developed Country...which made you want to do something, anything..you know... I truly can't imagine, but am going to make the wheelchair service and people know about such 'schemes' and hopefully someone can be helped...It sounds like lip service, words never seem to convey depth of feeling without sounding trite....

thanks for the info and your insight, EMS,



K


edited to fix link!

Edited by kewlcatkez, 15 March 2008 - 05:22 PM.

[ems]

True, I bet the NHS throws out many chairs every year. cheaper for them to buy another one than to fix it.. and of course us westernised race, we give up our fully working chairs yet scuffed a little chair for a trendier model! We all do it, I do it! Maybe we should ask them next time we go in what they do with all the chairs! We might be able to send over a thousand this year!!!!


Ems.

[PsychoSimon]

most I have done to my chair is snapped 8 spokes (5 in one wheel and 3 in another) going down a flight of stairs. I go down this particular flight once a week and it is about 12 steps long. just the right size so that I can stop after each step.

This one time I miss judged the last three and one wheel went down before the other, and I nearly came off but managed to stay on. Only damage was the spoke and wonky wheels lol.

I have a quickie argon, and the quickie mtb wheels

[edlee]

I read your post about welding your chair.

I was a welder prechair. Trust me on this,,,TIG welds (tungsten inert gas) on aluminum are rated at 100% if properly applied and that is without pre or post heats or cleaning beyond a good brushing with a stainless steel bristled brush.

Titaniun needs only a bit of oxygen in the shielding gas to achieve similar results.

ANY good bicycle repair shop, and most welding shops, can adequately make that repair. The cost will be a matter of your bargaining skills,, particularly if you have prepared the part in question before taking it to them.(dismantled) Less work for them means less cost to you.

I hope I've been of help ( and not a pain in the ass)
ed