25 replies to this topic

[apsyrtus]

i am 8 months into my c6 incomplete and soon to be discharged from rehab. i can walk short distances and have some hand function, but suffer badly from spasticity, neuropathic pain and...intolerable sadness.

when i touch my wife or my two year old daughter, i feel loathsome and utterly detached. i am scared to tell my wife how i feel in case she loses hope, or leaves me, and so as not to cause her more pain. besides which there are no words to match the grief.

if i see my friends i don't know what to say to them and long for them to go so i can just cry in peace. i can't formulate opinions. i don't know what's funny or in bad taste. i have a degree from oxford university and was a political journalist in Brussels, now i feel like anything i say is stupid or wrong.

when i am alone i don't know what to do with myself. sometimes i drift off into fantasies or chaotic reveries - memories, images. i can lose hours like this. i can't control my train of thought. it's like constantly panicking. constantly. just writing this post has been a huge mental effort and has taken ages.

i have tried to plan suicide. but i can't think of how to say goodbye to my daughter, wife and parents. my god, i love them so much. it's the one thing i still know.

i cd keep writing this all day and all night. then delete without posting. i'm scared. i'm ashamed of my fear. i don't know what to do. there's nowhere for me to go and rest from this unbearable tension.

[Lucydog]

Probably there is nothing I can write that will make you feel any better right now, apart from most of us have been at this point. I cope by looking at my children. I have a 4 yr old, 10 month old and another on the way, I decided that the only way to get through everything was that I would be the best ever parent I want them to be proud of me and know that I have come through the hardest of times, not given up. I can tell you Im going to be so proud one he starts school, listen you dont want to miss any of that despite not wanting to be here right now. So I will tell you a few certainties.

Seek help now. If you are not getting councelling, then get it. Id also ask for medication. Prozac did wonders for me, it just saw me through a hard time. I guess you are in London, if so you will have many resources available. You may want to have a SCI mentor perhaps. We can all tell you that there is life after SCI, please dont give up. At the moment you are in a real transition phass. life is different now, and we all know its hard, but it can be good again believe me. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP ON YOUR FAMILY OR YOUR FRIENDS.
I have found that talking to others who have had the same experience does help., Dont be afraid or ashamed to talk here, it is what we are all for, to give support and you can find plenty here to get you through this dark time.

Take care
L

[kewlcatkez]

apsyrtus, on Mar 16 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

i am 8 months into my c6 incomplete and soon to be discharged from rehab. i can walk short distances and have some hand function, but suffer badly from spasticity, neuropathic pain and...intolerable sadness.

when i touch my wife or my two year old daughter, i feel loathsome and utterly detached. i am scared to tell my wife how i feel in case she loses hope, or leaves me, and so as not to cause her more pain. besides which there are no words to match the grief.

if i see my friends i don't know what to say to them and long for them to go so i can just cry in peace. i can't formulate opinions. i don't know what's funny or in bad taste. i have a degree from oxford university and was a political journalist in Brussels, now i feel like anything i say is stupid or wrong.

when i am alone i don't know what to do with myself. sometimes i drift off into fantasies or chaotic reveries - memories, images. i can lose hours like this. i can't control my train of thought. it's like constantly panicking. constantly. just writing this post has been a huge mental effort and has taken ages.

i have tried to plan suicide. but i can't think of how to say goodbye to my daughter, wife and parents. my god, i love them so much. it's the one thing i still know.

i cd keep writing this all day and all night. then delete without posting. i'm scared. i'm ashamed of my fear. i don't know what to do. there's nowhere for me to go and rest from this unbearable tension.

Hello there,

( are you in Belgium right now or the uk?, just wondering..)

I always find it so difficult to start off knowing what to say. All I can say is that many have wheeled/walked the journey you are taking now, some of us are still there. I feel that I can relate to an extent to what you are going through, we all can. I am Paralysed and also have a severe form of a connective tissue disorder which means that I dislocate multiple joints each day. This was present ( undiagnosed) before but was no where as near severe as it is now. My paralysis is due in part to this. Please see my "story", found here by following the link: http://www.apparelyz...amp;#entry43861 In short, due to this my upper body is restricted too due to the tendon and nerve damage. I was also a RN who specialised in Cardiology and I felt at one stage, for a very long time, like my life had been destroyed. I kept telling my husband ( we have been together 12 years - 9 at the time) to leave me to find a woman who he could laugh with and do the things we used to do. In fact I pushed him a way a lot, and if I am honest I still do a bit, well, I tend not to talk about my problems with him.l Part of this is because I have always been one to work things through myself. However there have been times when I have had to talk to someone outside of the situation...rarely my Husband and family. However, we are still together. Yes its been hard and with two lil ones ( 5 and under) it would never have been a stroll in the park, but we are still here. We have an understanding. It is very likely that your wife is going through a grieving process too and yet she will be attempting to be solid and strong for you, or perhaps she is distraught. The way you feel detatched - well for me that was a sort of Dreamlike shock....It will get easier as time passes ( much as I hate the cliche)..

With regards to the panicking and loss of train of thought, I wonder if this is a panic attack ( which can be very severe) or if it is as a result of a head injury at the time of your injury? Of course I do not know since I am just guessing. What I would say though is that I do think that you are going through a normal reaction to your accident and that you are naturally feeling depressed, overwhelmed and like life is over. It is very early in your injury and so you need to be easy on yourself, it takes time to discover new ways of doing things and adapting. I have my dislocations etc complicating mine, and pain etc. You mention that you too have pain. It is very isolating and overwhelming and you have to be less hard on yourself, it will take time get to the point where you can dust yourself back off and start again on then journey of life.

With regards to your situation, the paralysis and the future is daunting, all of us go through that feeling and you will/are too.. Like I have said on here before, I always would think about not being able to play football or climb trees together or show them the dances I used to do saddens me, yet at the same time we have such a fab relationship now - we do quality things together , I DO get on the floor and play and even though I look like a stuck worm, its fun for the kids and they see me as their mum playing with them, not a disabled person on the floor looking silly.. well maybe they see the silly bit! Its great that I can allow myself to do this ( and is thanks to my lil ones,) as I used to cry at the thought of my wheelchair and if I caught my reflection in a shop window, but slowly things are less raw. Yes it hurts still and I have a less positive body image, but it is a little easier... , my kids have taught me..

I feel that my kids are my motivating forces a lot of the time in that I do all I can to make life normal, in fact we seemingly go beyond what other parents do a lot of the time because I want my children to look back and have good memories. You mention a daughter and I am sure that she is a steading and motivating force, already you have said that she and your wife have prevented you from taking your life. What I will say is that if you are feeling suicidal then you need to speak to someone, to vent. Some people will advise medication to help you in these times, whilst others say that it is not going to help in the long run since you need to work through the grief. You do need to be able to talk to someone who you can be honest with and as you are still in rehab this is an ideal time to do so. Is there a therapist you trust or a careworker/nurse?

It takes time and although life will not be the same it can become less harrowing and overwhelming, you have to find something to ground you so that you can carry on. If you can't do it for yourself then as a father, and a husband, perhaps you can keep on clinging to those two reasons ( wife and child) to do so.. I know that thinking like this can also promote feelings of guilt, about the fact that your wife/child need you, and that they too are grieving a loss, and you feel unable to be all you should be. I also felt guilty that at times I felt really down and guilty for the fact that although I knew I had to carry on for my kids and I love them more than anything, I felt like it was all too much... What I will say is that if you are feeling suicidal then you need to speak to someone, to vent. Some people will advise medication to help you in these times, whilst others say that it is not going to help in the long run since you need to work through the grief.

The things I found were that i felt I was being punished. Sounds silly now and irrational, but I felt that as I was not only paralysed but all my joints dislocate 24/7, and the pain, fatigue and other stuff which foes with it - well I felt that I was being punished and that the kids would be better off without me. I now know that is not the case. you see when I was in rehab, my son and daughter were very young and seemed fine, but the nightmares started and now my son ( he's 5) can recall the fact I wasn't there and is clingy to me...It had an impact and I am very close with them, much closer than I thought ever possible.

Right now you need to be less harsh on yourself. I found that thinking about practical things around not being able to lift my baby, use the kettle, etc - ways to try and overcome was/is the best thing for me, made me feel less helpless and, as I found different ways around things, I felt a little less overwhelmed.

Please do keep on talking. Please talk with someone there at your rehab centre and ask about community support groups etc for when you go home..., etc where people in the same situation as you can speak together. I know I shied away from such things though as ( i know silly) I didn't want to be associated with people who would be like "that" forever...I wasn't one of them....I was used to being the Nurse, the caregiver. I do think that by talking to someone, your dr perhaps, when you are feeling suicidal is the right thing to do..Its normal to feel scared, extremely at the end of your tether and totally bereft. Life isn't going the way you expected. However, things will get better for you, I am almost certain. As your main conerns are regarding your child and wife, do try and focus the thoughts into developing new ways to do things with them, just being with them and that will also help lift your mood in the long term..That way you will not miss that much, it will be different, but you will get through it - together with your loved ones and with reserves you never knew were there...It seems unlikely now, but you will be able to look back and see strength you thought impossible.

Try and give yourself time, you are so early in this that you need time to let the dust settle and have a true picture of how things will be. Focusing upon the positives and the progress you have made will help get you through this initial despair and strength and skill you learn will help get you through the next part. If you are not already, seek the consult of a Pain specialist ( behavioural/aversion therapy, pharmacological therapy and alternate therapies) I always find that if I try and do all I can it helps to decrease my panic and despair (I have had panic disorders/depression). Of course everyone is different. I tell myself that things could be so much harder/worse, and that helps me to focus. yes, I have to use a chair due to paralysis, dislocations etc, but I am still able to cuddle my children (its amazing how they learn to clamber on you!) and feel the sun on my face (well when its here!) and yes I have lost a few friends, who couldn't deal - but they were never really friends at all if they can't accept me as me. I have made others though, non and disabled, who have made a difference like no other.. Of course this also makes me feel bad for feeling sorry for myself...However I am human! In the early stages of disability/injury its so fraught with changeable emotions and feelings. Please keep talking and sharing and resisting the dark thoughts. Please speak with someone and know that you are not alone.

I am so sorry for the length of this. I hope something here helps...

Thinking of you and hoping for a better day


K

Edited by kewlcatkez, 16 March 2008 - 05:19 PM.

[carole338]

My heart goes out to you. I know the depression, fear, and the mind’s ever descending, black abyss and the panic it caused. I am just at the one year mark and cannot believe I went through it. In the beginning I cried day and night. The depression was almost too much to live with. I was finally convinced to take and anti-depressant which helps some. I also take neuronton for nerve pain.

I cannot say time will help heal the fear and depression. It takes more than time. It takes talking with those you know and love and sometimes strangers who will listen. It takes letting out your fear, anger, tears and sometimes rage. There is no shame in the fear of uncertainty. Talk to your doctors and get help for you neurological and mental pain.

There are many past discussions on this site that may be of help. I am certainly not the one to lecture on depression or sanity but I know how to reach out for help. This site has gotten me through a lot.

My prayers are with you.

[edlee]

Well,,, if you've made it this far through the posts in this thread, you have gotten sound advice , sympathy and the offer of prayers. Not here, tho!

Eight monthes,,,,you can walk,,,your mind works,, at least to the extent that you let it.

Suck it up, cupcake,,,,,You're already ahead of a lot of us here.

Wives come and go,, but your daughter will always be your daughter. What kind of example are you setting for her? Suicide ( or , for that matter, giving up) is not acceptable behavior for a father.

You are a political journalist,, you know that worse things happen to thousands of people all over the world.

The same mind that got you through Oxford, and put you in the job you have,,, is still in there. All you have to do is get all that "" poor me "" crap out of there. When you stop feeling sorry for yourself, you will start to see things better. Then you can START!!!!!

It's tough,,,,you are at ( or very close to) low spot now. We have all been there. Depression comes with the territory. For me , it was at the end of year two,,, when I accepted that it wasn't spinal shock, or swelling that was keeping me in this chair. That this was to be my life.

It wasn't prayers, or sympathetic words that turned me around. It was another crip, telling me to staighten the f**k up. That I was making other crips look bad.

So,,, I'm passing along the wisdom of my nephew ( who has been in his chair since 91), and I hope it helps you as much as it did me.

luck
ed

[Yong]

Hi,

I'm a little under 11 months post injury (April 22, 2007). Since you and I are at about the same place in the journey of post SCI life, I think I can relate to you a little. I was 21 when the accident happened and I was just devastated because I just felt that I was injured at too young of an age.

For months, all I could think about were things I would not be able to do now that I am paralyzed.

To be honest, I did have a moment when grief and depression got the best of me and I tried suicide. Well...I knew it wouldn't work (taking a pill and a half of Ambien doesn't really do the trick~) but for some reason it liberated me.

Then when I came to my senses, I knew that this had gone far enough and I asked my doctor to prescribe some antidepressants. I have been on Lexapro for about three months and I am off of it presently.

At 11 months post, I know time still hasn't healed enough wounds, but I am beginning to see the possibilities of my future. I have since changed my accounting major to pharmacy and was accepted to a pharmacy school, I have started exercising again and have started playing wheelchair tennis.

I still become somber at times but I think those are the moments when you and I need to keep our mind occupied. I go to school regularly now, and since I live close to my rehab center, I frequently visit there to work out and visit with the new patients.

I really do pray for you and your family on your emotional and physical recovery, but I do ask that you do not think of suicide. I have attempted it and it had torn my mom into pieces. I just don't know how she would have reacted if I had succeeded...

But I thank God everyday that I didn't succeed that day. I feel like I have been given another chance and I really hope that you will see that as well.

Best of luck to you.

-James

[longhaul]

Hey man talk to your doc and make sure that your meds aren't the problem. Then make sure that you are getting the nutrition that you need make sure that you get plenty of essential fatty acids (EFA), A good quality fish oil and you need EPA and DHA because these are what make our brains work right. Make sure that you are getting plenty of Vit. D it has a lot to do with depression. Caffeine and sugar should be kept to a minimum. Get out side and walk or wheelchair what ever just go. Think about how you want your life to be visualize it in your mind think of ways to make your world better. Grin even if you don't feel like it, do a big ol chimp grin because when we grin hormones are released that make us happy strange but true. It's one day at a time man don't give up.

[nomis]

apsyrtus

This could be the most significant moment of your life and you don’t want to screw up and miss out. Reality has never been so raw. So what are you made of?

You might see yourself as having a choice. I don’t see that. The only way you will discover there is a world beyond your current closed vision is to struggle through the quagmire you find yourself in. You’re going through a rough patch but there’s light if you keep looking.

I don’t care if you slide into a massive depression. People get so scared of depression but it’s nature’s way of dealing with hellish situations. Keep yourself entertained by keeping your metaphorical eyes open and watch where the misery takes you. There’s valuable stuff to be learned from it. You can trust yourself to go into the fear. Let it happen.

Stop giving a shit for what other people think. It’s not about who you thought you were but who you really are. And there's a hellovalot to learn about that. Damn, this can be exciting.

Edited by nomis, 17 March 2008 - 08:19 AM.

[Andrew Meddings]

you post is titled going insane. so it could be worse you could be there now. being at a all time low means only one way to go thats up. use that uni degree you have & think about it . if you were giving somone in your situation advice what would it be. then take that advice & apply it to yourself. you have the power in yourself to get through it & be a stronger & better person.
cheers

[Kwag_Myers]

From one writer to another:

I know what you mean about having a hard time posting. Funny, isn't it, that we "professionals" would have such a hard time writing when it comes to our selves? At seven months post, I have a journal that has about three pages covering my first few days - that's it. I think we kid ourselves into thinking that no one cares – who will read it? Well, judging from the response here I think you’ll agree that there are people who care.

I don’t know if it’s depression, or what. What I do know is that it’s easy to get focused on ourselves and forget about those around us. My advice is this; make it a point to visit us here on a regular basis. You don’t have to post, just come and hang out with those who know what you’re going through. Some of these threads are pretty entertaining.

Also, kids are like puppies, they love unconditionally. They don’t care that you’re in a chair. Daughters especially need their dad’s constant approval.

I think what the others are saying is that it’s time to move on, get over what’s happened and start living again with what abilities you still have. You can still write, and (as far as your wife and daughter are concerned) still love. Try to show them how much you appreciate their love for you.

[DaveP]

Lots of excellent advice here and it's been interesting reading.

Try to get back to basics and tell yourself that you have no choice but to deal with what you have. Complaining about what you don't have doesn't bring it back - all it does is piss off those closest to you and pushes them away. Friends and loved ones can only put up with so much shit before they start making excuses.

As for suicide, that has the exact opposite effect of what you want to achieve. It hurts the ones you love and brings pleasure to those you hate, and no one wants to do that!

Take a good deep breathe and give yourself a kick in the arse and get your shit together! Bring happiness and pride to the ones you love and show those doubters that you don't like that you're made of things they don't even know about and prove them all wrong!

[HiltonP]

apsyrtus, on Mar 16 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

i . . . have . . . intolerable sadness

About what?

You can walk for God's sake! . . . the last time I walked was in 1975, and the last time I was able to touch my nose un-aided was in 1997. I'd give BOTH my nuts to have what you've got!

You have an education, and a career, a wife, and a child, and I would guess a home and a degree of financial independence. Any one of those six is more than probably 75% of the world's disabled have.

"Sadness" is generally associated with looking back and lamenting about things which might have been, things lost, etc. You can do nothing about what is past. You need to look forward, that's where you can build, develop and grow. That is what you have control over.

[TimRS]

"i can't think of how to say goodbye to my daughter, wife and parents. my god, i love them so much. it's the one thing i still know."

If this is the one thing you know, then think of what you would be doing to them. This strand has a few pretty, well, unpolished entries, but the sentiment is right, in my book. I have a wife and a daughter, and when I was at my lowest, I was almost resentful that I couldn't entertain suicide because of what it would do to my family. They didn't ask for you to have an SCI in the first place, and I'm sure they feel pretty helpless now. So don't give up on them. They need you.

And get your meds checked.

Chin up.

[ParaforGod]

Hi Apsyrtus,
First I would like to say Im truely sorry for what you and your family are going through. I don't think there is one person on this forum who hasn't felt most, or a part, or all of what your feeling right now. You see sometimes when we're hurting so bad we don't see that the cross someone else in carrying is just as heavy to them as our cross is to us. Take a look around while your at the center for rehab really look and pay attention to what you see. While in rehab it didn't take me long to see there was others there that was worse off than myself. It didn't stop me from hurting both physically or mentally but it made me count my blessing real quick. There was a 9th grader there who had been jumping on a trampoline and broke his neck. All he could do was blow through a straw to move his chair. His injury was complete. There was a 15yr. old who dove into shallow water, he and his cousins had swam there time after time it broke his neck. He was paralyzed high up and couldn't use his hands very well. There was a twenty year old girl who was just riding a four wheeler and slid off in the ditch with the four wheeler coming in on top of her. She was a blessing because although she hurt she made everyone laugh. There was a 21yr. old girl there who had gone on a mission trip to share God with others and when returning home her friend was driving so she layed the passenger seat she was in back to take a nap. She had on her seatbelt but because she was laying back the top of the seatbelt wasn't touching her, only the lap belt. Her friend lost control of the car and it flipped. She slid out from under the seatbelt. She was in college and about to be married. She was a virgin and she was having to deal with the fact she would never know what its like to feel while making love to her husband. Her injury was complete. As I've said before my husband and I were in a Ultra Light plane crash and it killed him. We had been married only six weeks. Apsyrtus please don't take your life,PLEASE! As injured as I was and I was broken from head to toe. I am a T4 complete, my right leg is amputated and thats only the begining of what all was wrong with me. As hard as it was my being injured and it was hard, but loosing my husband was worse. I couldn't hardly deal with my being injured for trying to deal with loosing him. Please listen if you take your life you can't even begin to understand what your wife and child will go through for the rest of their life. There is noway you can understand how they will never get past the fact that you chose to leave them. My husband didn't make the choice to leave me but I didn't get to say bye. I wondered what we said to each other before crashing. Did I tell him I loved him? Was he afraid? Why did he try so hard to take care of me when we were crashing and if he hadn't been trying to take care of me would he have lived? When I woke up at first I didn't remember how I got hurt so I wanted to write. I wrote his name and all I remember is we're sorry he didn't make it. I can't even start to tell you the pain I felt in my heart and soul. I had a hemorrage on my brain so they didn't want me getting upset for fear I'd have a stroke or heart attack so they knocked me out with medication. Then two days latter someone is saying the funeral is over it went well and I couldn't open my eyes but I was thinking funeral, what funeral, then I remembered and started to sob. I can't tell you of the guilt I felt because he died and I lived. I didn't get to go to the funeral. I had no closer and I can't begin to tell you what it feels like not to get to say goodbye. I have a friend who's son took his own life he had great parents and he was a good son. I can't tell you of the devastation those parents went through. Wondering if they did something wrong. Not knowing why he didn't come and talk to them and let them help him work things out or get help. Wondering why he didn't love them enough not to take his own life. It was so devastating those parents broke up. I think they not only blamed themselves but each other. Do you realize as small as your child is she may grow up wondering what she did wrong that would make you not want to love her enough to live your life? Your daughter will grow up wondering why you didn't love her enough to want to be a part of her life. On her wedding day she will wish you were there to give her away and she want have that special time that only a daughter can have with a dad. Someday when she has a child of her own wishing that child had its Grandfather. Your child will only know what others tell her about you. My stepson was only four when his dad died and even though we tell him how great his father was and how much his father loved him, and many stories about his father no matter how much we tell him he doesn't remember. I know what its like to wish I could say I love you one more time and hear him say I love you one more time. I know what its like to wish I could feel his touch one more time. I know what its like to have to face the future without his being here to help me wether it be with finances, fixing things around the house, mowing the grass, raising our children together, or just going through life loving each other and sharing all the different things we would have got to experence together. That was all taken away in a heartbeat. There is no way I could ever make you understand the pain of not getting to say goodbye. Do you really want your family to go through this? The difference is my husband didn't choose to leave me and his children, I knew he loved me. I have such happy memories and I don't have to face he didn't care enough to stay with me. It was his time to go but you have a choice to stay. God left you here for a reason. Life is good. I know you are hurting so very much right now and we don't always have to be strong. Its OK to say Im afraid, its OK to cry, Its OK to say I need help, and its OK to get help. If your not on antidepressant for depression then talk to your doctor about starting on it. If your already on antidepressant then tell him its not working. Antidepressant can help but we have to also deal with whats going on in our life. When I came home all I could talk about was the accident and my husband, it was all I could think about. I couldn't cry no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't cry. I told my doctor I didn't know what was wrong with me because I cried watching Little House on the Prairie and now I couldn't make the tears come. My shoulders would shake, I would make sounds of crying but the tears wouldn't come. It felt like everything was bottled up inside me and couldn't get out. I was diagnosed with Post Tramatic Stress Syndrome. Ask your doctor about this syndrome. What your going through will take time but it does get easier. Dwell on what have and not on what you don't. Dwell on what your going to do your best to achieve and not on what you can't do. Realize when you touch your wife and child they love you not for what you think you use to be but for what you are and not wether you can walk or not but for whats in your heart, your kindness, your goodness, your love you give to them. We have all heard marriage is 50/50 but thats not true. Marriage is when one partner can only give 40 percent and thats their best then the other picks up the 60 percent. When you are giving all you truely have it may mean the other partner has to carry you with the rest of the percent. Remember your wife is also afraid and hurting. She is not only hurting for herself but for you. She is trying to carry you right now. She is picking up the percentage you can't give right now. Do the same for her. Do your best and know that if God cared enough to create you then your life is worth living. Focus on the good things in your life. I can honestly say Im OK being in this wheelchair. Do I wish I could walk? YES but Im a complete my spinal cord was severed so medically I will never walk again on this earth but its OK because I am truely blessed. I can use my arms and Im not on a vent. You can walk maybe not as much as you would like but count your blessings. My intention of writing this is not to sound harsh or to judge you I know what depression is like and I know what its like to wish you didn't have to face another day but I also know the goodness of life and how quick it can be taken away. Im sorry this is so long but I hope something I have said can help. May God bless you and your family and you all will be in my prayers.

[TimRS]

Quote

God left you here for a reason.

Question. If so, what was it? And what's the reason for other people not being 'left here'?
If this stuff works for you, perhaps best not to assume that it works for others.

[HiltonP]

ParaForGod . . . one word . . . "paragraphs".

You've got some interesting ideas, but they're lost in a sea of words.

[Kwag_Myers]

TimRS, on Mar 18 2008, 06:14 AM, said:

Quote

God left you here for a reason.

Question. If so, what was it? And what's the reason for other people not being 'left here'?
If this stuff works for you, perhaps best not to assume that it works for others.

I disagree. Those of us who believe that God has a purpose for our lives also believe He has a purpose for everyone's life and are obligated to say so. It's up to each individual to seek out what that purpose is. It sounds to me like you’ve made your choice, probably of your own free will. How is it that you presume to make that choice for others? Why can’t apsyrtus make that choice for himself?

To answer your question, it's Satan that comes to steal, kill, and destroy. The question of "why?" is again up to the individual. There's many reasons for people being killed in the Bible. But I don't want to hijack this thread with a sermon or Bible study, so I'll leave it to you to find out for yourself what those reasons are.

Edited by Kwag_Myers, 18 March 2008 - 10:51 AM.

[Lucydog]

Lets juut leave G-d out of this, thats all down to personal opinion. As it is ParaforGod wrote some powerful & thought provoking stuff. Lets not pick on the bits we dont quite agree as it was written with a good heart and the right intentions.
ThankYou

[TimRS]

Sounded like a sermon/Bible study to me... and I wish it was kept out of forums like this.
But... Lucydog is right. It is down to personal opinion.

So lets ALL stay neutral.

[kimgilaby]

Hi I just wanted to say that you really do need to give yourself and your family a chance to fully adjust to your new world. Look into your daughters eyes, do they look at you any different? My guess is no, you are still her daddy. Our 2 Daughters are probably the the best therepy my husband has. Sure he can't run around with them but that doesn't stop him from doing everything else like reading tho them or doing art projects or just holding them. We would all be so much worse off if he just gave up and wasn't here anymore. We are only 4 months post and I know that sometimes it is hard for him to get past the "Why is this happening?" But it did and we all need to be strong. Our biggest support has been this site . These people don't has words and have really sound advice for just about any question you can have. Be strong and be proud that you are alive, that little girl needs you to be there for her first day of school, her first crush, and to walk or ROLL her down the aisle. And give your wife a chance, talk to her, this is scary for her too let her know her husband is still with her and that you still love her like the day you married her.
Good Luck

[TimRS]

Well said, Kimgilaby!

And tell your husband that parenting from a chair gets easier and more rewarding with time. It is a marathon, and not a sprint, after all. I'm now coming up to three years post, and I'm still finding new ways of tackling things on an almost daily basis. A bit of creative thinking overcomes all but the most stubborn obstacles...

[ParaforGod]

First of all I would like to say Im sorry for not writing in paragraphs but with the brain hemorrage I had I can't punchuate, write, or spell the way I use to. I also get words mixed up and my short term memory I have to work on so just bare with me please. I ask my daughter to get me the pay phone instead of the cordless all the time. She says sure Mom which corner do you want me to run down on. The brain has different parts that work with different things we do, and that part of my brain was affected. So even if I tried to use paragraphs and punchuate it wouldn't be right. Im sorry. I will try to do better.
Thanks LucyDog for looking beyond and seeing my intentions came from my heart and that I wasn't trying to hurt or offend anyone. It really does mean alot to me.
Im also sorry that anyone took it that I was preaching a sermon because that was not my intent and Im not out to offend anyone. I really do care about other people and I wouldn't want to hurt anyone but Im not going to appologize for talking about God because I do believe in him and he is a part of my life just as those who choose not to believe choose to say so. If someone says on the forum that they don't believe in God I don't write and ask questions like if God doesn't exist then what about this or that. I let them say what they have to say because like you said its a choice. Im not trying to push the fact that I do believe on anyone but I do share my personal relationship with God and what he has done in my life and if anyone can see the good in my life and it can be a encouragement then is it so bad? I don't feel that those who choose not to believe should expect different of us who do choose to believe. As for me I choose to have a personal relationship with God I know that when I was at deaths door God was with me and pulled me through. I know that when I prayed and told him I needed to feel his sweet Holy Spirit in a way I had never felt it before He was there. Thats my choice. Just because I feel this way and just because I share this with someone doesn't mean that person has to agree with me. When I share God with someone then its up to that person to choose if they agree or not and if they choose not then I don't get angry with them.
Its been said many times that we should leave God out of this forum does that mean if someone says or talks about anything else that someone doesn't agree with, or finds it offensive it should be left out. Someone may not be saying anything bad about anyone or anything but when writing use language another person doesn't use or like. Does that mean the person who wrote it has to change the way they talk or write or should the person reading the language just understand that the person using the language has a chose to use the words they choose. I believe having a personal relationship with God is a chose and I believe that we as humans leave God he doesn't leave us. Thats my chose, and it is a chose which doesn't mean everyone else believes, or has to make the same chose as I do. I understand that and it doesn't make me feel any different about the person who chooses not to believe. I just want to care for others, love others, and help others.
I was ask if God left you here for a reason what is it. That is something each person has to figure out for themselves. Since I do believe in God I also believe God doesn't make bad things happen. I also believe in Satin and I believe Satin makes the bad things happen, Satin comes to kill and destroy. When my accident happened we crashed at my Dads house. My Dad was outside and saw us crash. He said he felt like he was suppose to reach out and catch us but couldn't do a thing. He never felt so helpless. My Dad also believes in God but at the time I was in rehab he would say to me over and over If you just hadn't got on that plane. I told him Dad I don't think God looked down and said there she is on that plane so Im going to let her crash. I think God knows how he can use us and where he can use us and for whatever reason this is where he would have me be at this time in my life. Through my accident the church I go to has started a support group for those with disabilities, family members or friends of those with disabilities. No one has to be a member of this church and no one has to believe as we do to come to the meetings and no one forces anything on anyone. Until this support group started there wasn't any kind of support group around close. This is something good that has come out of my accident. I have people tell me all the time that my story helps them see how they should spend more time with their family, how they should appreciate life more, appreciate the little things in life we all take for granted. If my being in this wheelchair can help anyone then thats a good thing. Life is all about choses. To be bitter or not, to be angry or not, to lay down and stop or to get up and go when life gets tough. Do I have hard times? Yes! Do I ever feel anger? Yes? Can life be hard? Yes. Thats just a part of life. I was ask so I answered the best way I know how.
Bad things happen in life. When I was in rehab my daughter was 18yrs. old and she said to me Mom your the good one in the family, your always doing for others and always trying to do whats right. Why you? Her question shocked me. I thought about it and all I could think to say was Why not me? Im no different or better than anyone else. And thats the truth. Im no different or better than anyone.
My purpose writing Apsyrtus was not to offend, or push anything on him. My purpose was to reach out to someone who is hurting. To let him know there are others who understands his pain. To try and show him some of what his family would go through if he does take his life. My intention was to try and help and if my sharing what God has done in my life can help anyone then thats a good thing.
This forum I feel is about helping others, loving, caring and sharing with others, reaching out to those who are hurting and even about joy and laughter. When someone writes in we all respond and in someway give our oppinion and thats what I did based on what I have experenced. Im not trying to push God down anyones throat. What good would that do? I can't force anyone to believe anything they don't want to? I have not done anything to try and hurt anyone and if I have then I appologize that was not my intention. To the best of my knowledge I have not responded in anyway that was rude, ugly, or mean to anyone. If others have a right to say what they feel, if others have a right to say what they believe, if others have a right to share personal experences then why is it so bad for me to do the same? I don't want to push anything on anyone I just want to be able to share, help others and let others help me.

[Trinity]

"It is my firm belief that I have a link with the past and a responsibilty to the future. I cannot give up. I cannot despair. There's a whole future, generations to come. I have to keep trying" (author not known)

[TimRS]

OK.
Para for God.
My intention was not to offend or upset you. If I have done so, or made you feel that you have been misunderstood, then I apologise.
Two points.
Firstly, I did not start the religious element in this discussion. However, I feel strongly that if someone introduces anything to the discussion then it should be up for consideration and opinion, whether it is God, the Devil, Medication, Punctuation, or whether or not one can walk.
If the suggestion had been along the lines of "Have you explored religion as a way of finding comfort?" Then fine. No problemo.
However, to bring up a Christian Biblical interpretation of "why we're here', and 'why bad things happen', takes no consideration of the religious or cultural background of anyone else using this forum. If you raise it, then it should be up for discussion.

My personal experience...
I fell out of a tree while working as a tree surgeon, and on my first night in hospital, at 3 a.m. while having a huge anxiety attack and racked with pain, I had one of the nurses tell me to surrender myself unto Jesus. I felt it was deeply inappropriate to preach to me at that time. If God is omnipotent and omnipresent, then I don't feel he needs a nurse on the night shift to get in touch.

Despite coming from a long line of vicars and ministers, I am not in any way religious (can you tell?). If other people choose this way to answer life's questions, then that is their choice. However, if they assume the same of me or other people and voice this assumption, then I feel it's fair game to discuss this. I don't see why my right not to 'believe' or to discuss this topic is not respected equally.

Because, believe me, I feel as certain about my take on the world as you do about yours.

Please, can tolerance cut both ways?

Enough said, as I feel this has become an altogether different issue. And for that I apologise.

[ParaforGod]

Hi TimRS
I also feel that anything said is up for decussion and I appologize if I made it sound as if I don't. That was not my intent. I also apologize if I made it sound as if I don't care about others religious or cultrual backgrounds because I do. I have a friend who is from Eygpt she believes totally different than the way I do and we have decussed each others religious beliefs and cultural back grounds many times. I can honestly say we have never got angry with or offended by the others belief at anytime.
I am sorry about your accident and I am truely sorry about what the nurse said to you.
All is well.

[mad]

Come on you have children.. You can walk.. Be happy..