21 replies to this topic

[graphic]

Hi All,
I'm thinking of buying an ex-demo Crossfire Titanium with Spinergy Spox wheels and frog legs because it's a good price. I haven't been to see it yet because I'm unsure about the fixed backrest it's fitted with. Currently I use two Kuschal K4 airlites which I find great. Does anyone use a fixed back chair and, if so, are they sorry they didn't get a folding back? It wouldn't present any problems on a daily basis, but I sometimes use a two door sports car and I would need to put the chair on the small back seat (I've attached a pic of the chair and the car seat which would need to be folded down to put the chair in the back). Does anyone use a fixed a fixed back seat in a similar car? Any experiences would be much appreciated. I know I could just take the car and try it out, but it's a six hour return journey...and my wife HATES going anywhere in that particular car

Quick rant:
One thing I don't like about Invacare....the name!! It's bad enough the company has a name reflecting the bad old days of 'caring for invalids', without having to proudly display it on the back of my chair.

Edited by graphic, 28 March 2008 - 03:19 PM.

[ems]

I've got a fixed back quickie Ti and actually prefer it, because its a small frame like the crossfire i dont see that it makes that much difference getting it in and out of th car, and I tend to put mine behind me on the passenger side and I can get it over the seats fine. The name thing, well, i think there is a much weirder name that the company "colours" have given one of their chairs.. SPAZZ!!!
Emma.

[Big Valley]

I have never had a fixed back and while I am sure it could still be loaded why take a chair that has gone about at compact as it could go then make the back not fold down? I also don't like the idea of not being able to adjust it. I have had to adjust mine many times as the fabric of my back rest relaxed or I gained/lost some weight.

Also, is this already made chair in the dimensions you exactly want? Width and floor to seat heights? Is the price so much cheaper than say Sport Aid that it is worth it not being exactly what you want?

I am currently pricing a Titanium Crossfire via insurance to see what they will and won't pay for but the Crossfire is definitely the chair I am going with. If the Invacare label bothers you unstitch the embroidery or patch off the back. That is what I did on my last Topend.

[Kev-O]

graphic, on Mar 28 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

Hi All,
I'm thinking of buying an ex-demo Crossfire Titanium with Spinergy Spox wheels and frog legs because it's a good price. I haven't been to see it yet because I'm unsure about the fixed backrest it's fitted with. Currently I use two Kuschal K4 airlites which I find great. Does anyone use a fixed back chair and, if so, are they sorry they didn't get a folding back? It wouldn't present any problems on a daily basis, but I sometimes use a two door sports car and I would need to put the chair on the small back seat (I've attached a pic of the chair and the car seat which would need to be folded down to put the chair in the back). Does anyone use a fixed a fixed back seat in a similar car? Any experiences would be much appreciated. I know I could just take the car and try it out, but it's a six hour return journey...and my wife HATES going anywhere in that particular car

Quick rant:
One thing I don't like about Invacare....the name!! It's bad enough the company has a name reflecting the bad old days of 'caring for invalids', without having to proudly display it on the back of my chair.

attachment

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i have a crossfire an love it. Top End is whats on the back of there chair. theres nothing about Invacare even visible. good luck an i hope you like it

[graphic]

ems, on Mar 28 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

I've got a fixed back quickie Ti and actually prefer it, because its a small frame like the crossfire i dont see that it makes that much difference getting it in and out of th car, and I tend to put mine behind me on the passenger side and I can get it over the seats fine. The name thing, well, i think there is a much weirder name that the company "colours" have given one of their chairs.. SPAZZ!!!
Emma.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience Emma, I'll probably go to see it next week to try it out. As for 'SPAZZ' well, to be honest, I prefer that to 'invalid'. Invalid has two meanings....'a sick person needing long term care' and 'something that's not legally recognizable'. At least as a spazz I can look after myself

[graphic]

Big Valley, on Mar 28 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

I have never had a fixed back and while I am sure it could still be loaded why take a chair that has gone about at compact as it could go then make the back not fold down? I also don't like the idea of not being able to adjust it. I have had to adjust mine many times as the fabric of my back rest relaxed or I gained/lost some weight.

Also, is this already made chair in the dimensions you exactly want? Width and floor to seat heights? Is the price so much cheaper than say Sport Aid that it is worth it not being exactly what you want?

I am currently pricing a Titanium Crossfire via insurance to see what they will and won't pay for but the Crossfire is definitely the chair I am going with. If the Invacare label bothers you unstitch the embroidery or patch off the back. That is what I did on my last Topend.

I agree, I think it's silly they didn't fit a folding back. On the other hand, I suppose the chair will be more rigid and there's less to rattle. The actual sizes are exactly what I'd order for myself, but I'd go for a folding back and a 'V' frame. I'd be saving approx £800 on the new price (roughly $1600), so it's quite a save. I'm going to see if I can work out a price if I bought one from the US and had it shipped to the UK. They seem to be a lot cheaper over there, but I'd probably have to pay customs charges etc. The Invacare label doesn't bother me that much, it was a bit tongue in cheek. Having said that, I would remove the label as I don't particularly like it either...just seems a rather sad name to use these days.

[kewlcatkez]

graphic, on Mar 28 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

Big Valley, on Mar 28 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

I have never had a fixed back and while I am sure it could still be loaded why take a chair that has gone about at compact as it could go then make the back not fold down? I also don't like the idea of not being able to adjust it. I have had to adjust mine many times as the fabric of my back rest relaxed or I gained/lost some weight.

Also, is this already made chair in the dimensions you exactly want? Width and floor to seat heights? Is the price so much cheaper than say Sport Aid that it is worth it not being exactly what you want?

I am currently pricing a Titanium Crossfire via insurance to see what they will and won't pay for but the Crossfire is definitely the chair I am going with. If the Invacare label bothers you unstitch the embroidery or patch off the back. That is what I did on my last Topend.

I agree, I think it's silly they didn't fit a folding back. On the other hand, I suppose the chair will be more rigid and there's less to rattle. The actual sizes are exactly what I'd order for myself, but I'd go for a folding back and a 'V' frame. I'd be saving approx £800 on the new price (roughly $1600), so it's quite a save. I'm going to see if I can work out a price if I bought one from the US and had it shipped to the UK. They seem to be a lot cheaper over there, but I'd probably have to pay customs charges etc. The Invacare label doesn't bother me that much, it was a bit tongue in cheek. Having said that, I would remove the label as I don't particularly like it either...just seems a rather sad name to use these days.

I Agree re the name and it is one reason I wouldn't go for the chair, silly I know... I have an Invacare cushion.....at least it sees my BUM...and the 'name tag' sees the seat sling... not the light of day...

Go for the chair if it feels right and is a true bargain. Personally I don;t think I could handle my chair if the back didn't fold. Is that piccie exactly the same as the chair? what height back is it?

Good luck!

K

[Big Valley]

I never thought much about the name. My first thought was "innovation" and not "invalid."

[graphic]

kewlcatkez, on Mar 28 2008, 06:30 PM, said:

I Agree re the name and it is one reason I wouldn't go for the chair, silly I know... I have an Invacare cushion.....at least it sees my BUM...and the 'name tag' sees the seat sling... not the light of day...

Go for the chair if it feels right and is a true bargain. Personally I don;t think I could handle my chair if the back didn't fold. Is that piccie exactly the same as the chair? what height back is it?

Good luck!
K

Hi K, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about the name. I was beginning to think I'm odd...and I'd hate to have to agree with everyone who knows me The chair does seem like a bargain. The back is about 14" high right now but is adjustable for height. The chair is the same as the one in the pic except that the footrest is different and it has frogs legs. I'm having second thoughts because of the back but I've had a brainwave! I can try getting my present chair in the car with the back up...that way I don't waste a long journey

[graphic]

Kev-O, on Mar 28 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

i have a crossfire an love it. Top End is whats on the back of there chair. theres nothing about Invacare even visible. good luck an i hope you like it

Glad you like it Kev. Do you have brakes fitted to it? The one I've got in mind doesn't, and the rep said I'd have to modify the clothes guards to fit low level scissors brakes. I can't stand ordinary brakes because I keep getting my thumbs jammed when I pick up speed

[Texaswheelz]

Big Valley, on Mar 28 2008, 10:45 AM, said:

I have never had a fixed back and while I am sure it could still be loaded why take a chair that has gone about at compact as it could go then make the back not fold down? I also don't like the idea of not being able to adjust it. I have had to adjust mine many times as the fabric of my back rest relaxed or I gained/lost some weight.

You can still adjust the tension of the back if it becomes loose, you can still raise and lower the two poles if need be, you just can't fold it down or make it lean forward or back a little more through adjustments. There are no parts to wear out, every chair I've had the first thing to go has been the hardware where the seat folds. Take all that hardware out of the equation and you have lighter chair that will last much longer. Throw a custom seat like those carbon ADI back and it should last for a long time with no problems and you'd never need to adjust anything anyway. The only reason I have my folding is for getting in and out of the car, I set it where I want it when I got it and other then to raise or lower my back I haven't changed it.

If you wanna see if your able to get it out of the car or not or how hard/easy it would be, then just go and do it with your current chair without folding the back down, should be the same, shouldn't it?

[graphic]

Texaswheelz, on Mar 29 2008, 02:42 AM, said:

Big Valley, on Mar 28 2008, 10:45 AM, said:

I have never had a fixed back and while I am sure it could still be loaded why take a chair that has gone about at compact as it could go then make the back not fold down? I also don't like the idea of not being able to adjust it. I have had to adjust mine many times as the fabric of my back rest relaxed or I gained/lost some weight.

You can still adjust the tension of the back if it becomes loose, you can still raise and lower the two poles if need be, you just can't fold it down or make it lean forward or back a little more through adjustments. There are no parts to wear out, every chair I've had the first thing to go has been the hardware where the seat folds. Take all that hardware out of the equation and you have lighter chair that will last much longer. Throw a custom seat like those carbon ADI back and it should last for a long time with no problems and you'd never need to adjust anything anyway. The only reason I have my folding is for getting in and out of the car, I set it where I want it when I got it and other then to raise or lower my back I haven't changed it.

If you wanna see if your able to get it out of the car or not or how hard/easy it would be, then just go and do it with your current chair without folding the back down, should be the same, shouldn't it?

I've just tried getting my existing chair into the back of the car with the back up and, although I can do it, it's a little awkward so I think I'll give it a miss, mainly because the car seat backs are carbon and I'd hate to scratch them. What you say about a fixed back being stronger and lighter makes a lot of sense. I was also surprised to see that it's more expensive than a folding back.

Anyway, I've decided what I'm going to do. The only reason I thought about buying the chair in the first place was because of the discount, there's not really anything wrong wrong with my Kuschall. The Crossfire cost £1600 but isn't the spec I'd buy if I was buying one to order. I've worked out that I could buy one from the US with all the extras I'd want for another £400 so it isn't really worth settling for second best. I'm not sure what shipping costs and duty are. I've decided to hang on to my existing chair and buy some Spinergy wheels and maybe frog legs and an ADI carbon back (all sourced from the US). Thanks to everyone for their input, much appreciated

ps
If anyone's bought stuff from www.sportaid.com and had it shipped to the UK I'd be grateful to know how it went and if you had to pay customs duty.

Edited by graphic, 29 March 2008 - 11:58 AM.

[Kev-O]

graphic, on Mar 28 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

Kev-O, on Mar 28 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

i have a crossfire an love it. Top End is whats on the back of there chair. theres nothing about Invacare even visible. good luck an i hope you like it

Glad you like it Kev. Do you have brakes fitted to it? The one I've got in mind doesn't, and the rep said I'd have to modify the clothes guards to fit low level scissors brakes. I can't stand ordinary brakes because I keep getting my thumbs jammed when I pick up speed

i have scissor brakes on my chair. the only thing i dont like about them is you got to stay on top of them an make sure they dont slip forward( you will see what im talking about when you get yours). and the little spring that brings them back brakes easy. I have broke 4 already an you can buy just a spring you have to buy an all new brake. I just left if how it is.

[Char]

For those out there with a crossfire or similar chair - I just got my new chair in after waiting 5 months for insurance approval. The vendor did not order the specifications I asked for. Specifically, there are 2 major things and I am curious whether it makes that big a difference and should just deal with it or if I should ask them to re-order. My chair width is 14 inches. The seat depth I asked for is 15 inches. The vendor ordered in a 16 inch chair along with a new roho quadtro in that depth. I am not liking the difference of the 1 inch. The vendor says it was done to allow for my new custom ride back which has yet to come in. Also I asked for front frame angle as close to 90 degrees as possible because I tuck my feet way under me. They ordered a 75 degree angle rather than the max 85 degree angle. I am wondering if anyone has had similar experience and if the 10 degree angle makes much difference. My old chair is Invacare A4 and looks tiny compared to my new one which is definitely longer. Maybe it is just the crossfire frame? Any thoughts or input?

[Rotarymotion]

Char, on Nov 12 2009, 02:09 AM, said:

For those out there with a crossfire or similar chair - I just got my new chair in after waiting 5 months for insurance approval. The vendor did not order the specifications I asked for. Specifically, there are 2 major things and I am curious whether it makes that big a difference and should just deal with it or if I should ask them to re-order. My chair width is 14 inches. The seat depth I asked for is 15 inches. The vendor ordered in a 16 inch chair along with a new roho quadtro in that depth. I am not liking the difference of the 1 inch. The vendor says it was done to allow for my new custom ride back which has yet to come in. Also I asked for front frame angle as close to 90 degrees as possible because I tuck my feet way under me. They ordered a 75 degree angle rather than the max 85 degree angle. I am wondering if anyone has had similar experience and if the 10 degree angle makes much difference. My old chair is Invacare A4 and looks tiny compared to my new one which is definitely longer. Maybe it is just the crossfire frame? Any thoughts or input?

In my opinion it is completely unacceptable for the vendor to change your specification without checking with you and I would reject the chair because it isn't what you ordered. The only reason the spec was changed was for the vendor's convenience, or because he was too sloppy to check the details correctly. You shouldn't have to accept second best after waiting so long just to cover up his unacceptable standard of service.

Insist that the replacement is provided much quicker. Also ask how he intends to make amends for the delay you have suffered because of his changing the spec and ordering the wrong chair.

The downside is that you will have to wait a bit longer, however, minor irritations usually become more noticable with time, not less, so I would beware of thinking you might get used to it.

You might ask the vendor, how he would feel if he had to wear shoes for the next five years that were one inch too long because someone had taken it upon themselves to order a different size to the size he had chosen.

You might guess from the above that I feel very strongly about people who take it upon themselves to decide that they know what is better for us than we do.

[allister]

I ride a Topend Crossfire T6 and its sooooo comfort especially with the frog legs. I can fold the back down to make it easier to pass accross myself in the car.
The ergonic seat frame makes all the difference. Looked at the new Quickie Hellium, but not as comphy. I have a Jay easy visco cushion on it.

Think you should like its a smooth ride

Al

[ems]

I love mine ;) Well not an emotional sort of love.. just better than the last LOL

[Tetracyclone]

Char, on Nov 11 2009, 09:09 PM, said:

For those out there with a crossfire or similar chair - I just got my new chair in after waiting 5 months for insurance approval. The vendor did not order the specifications I asked for. Specifically, there are 2 major things and I am curious whether it makes that big a difference and should just deal with it or if I should ask them to re-order. My chair width is 14 inches. The seat depth I asked for is 15 inches. The vendor ordered in a 16 inch chair along with a new roho quadtro in that depth. I am not liking the difference of the 1 inch. The vendor says it was done to allow for my new custom ride back which has yet to come in. Also I asked for front frame angle as close to 90 degrees as possible because I tuck my feet way under me. They ordered a 75 degree angle rather than the max 85 degree angle. I am wondering if anyone has had similar experience and if the 10 degree angle makes much difference. My old chair is Invacare A4 and looks tiny compared to my new one which is definitely longer. Maybe it is just the crossfire frame? Any thoughts or input?

On one hand the vendor may know something we don't about how the new ride back will affect depth, but to change the order without explaining his thought process to you is outrageous. Did he order 16" because that is the smallest roho cushion? Whatever his motive, I agree the consequences to you are huge and other people's advice about taking him to task is good. He needs a lesson he will remember.

The 75 degree angle is totally unacceptable for you given how you like to ride. I just changed from 75 degrees to 85 and I'm so much happier.

Good luck and make sure you get what you truly need and want.

[Char]

"On one hand the vendor may know something we don't about how the new ride back will affect depth, but to change the order without explaining his thought process to you is outrageous. Did he order 16" because that is the smallest roho cushion? Whatever his motive, I agree the consequences to you are huge and other people's advice about taking him to task is good. He needs a lesson he will remember.

The 75 degree angle is totally unacceptable for you given how you like to ride. I just changed from 75 degrees to 85 and I'm so much happier.

Good luck and make sure you get what you truly need and want."



Well, in actuality, is not just 16 inches, he went to 18 inch depth. I was floored. I took the tape measure to it, looked at the order sheet and pondered why a 16 inch roho was not flush with the seat upholstery. Needless to say, I took the chair back and making them reorder a 14 inch wide by 15 inch depth.
They are fighting me on and trying to justify the extra 3 inches for the back. The back has an adjustable frame angle. The custom back looks no different from a jay or matrix. But basically they are painting me as the bad guy in this because they will not be out of pocket for their screw-up. I was livid when I got off the phone with the sales rep!

[Rotarymotion]

Well, in actuality, is not just 16 inches, he went to 18 inch depth. I was floored. I took the tape measure to it, looked at the order sheet and pondered why a 16 inch roho was not flush with the seat upholstery. Needless to say, I took the chair back and making them reorder a 14 inch wide by 15 inch depth.
They are fighting me on and trying to justify the extra 3 inches for the back. The back has an adjustable frame angle. The custom back looks no different from a jay or matrix. But basically they are painting me as the bad guy in this because they will not be out of pocket for their screw-up. I was livid when I got off the phone with the sales rep!


Remember that if they changed the order without your agreement, then it is no longer your order. Your order has not yet been placed. If they ordered something different, then that is their order, and you have no obligation to buy anything they have effectively ordered for stock.

They will try to pressure you into buying it to cover up their mistakes. Do not feel under any pressure. Gently point out that they haven't yet placed your custom order. The different order they placed is nothing to do with you because it wasn't your order to your specification.

[Tetracyclone]

Rotarymotion, on Nov 16 2009, 03:56 AM, said:

Well, in actuality, is not just 16 inches, he went to 18 inch depth. I was floored. I took the tape measure to it, looked at the order sheet and pondered why a 16 inch roho was not flush with the seat upholstery. Needless to say, I took the chair back and making them reorder a 14 inch wide by 15 inch depth.
They are fighting me on and trying to justify the extra 3 inches for the back. The back has an adjustable frame angle. The custom back looks no different from a jay or matrix. But basically they are painting me as the bad guy in this because they will not be out of pocket for their screw-up. I was livid when I got off the phone with the sales rep!


Remember that if they changed the order without your agreement, then it is no longer your order. Your order has not yet been placed. If they ordered something different, then that is their order, and you have no obligation to buy anything they have effectively ordered for stock.

They will try to pressure you into buying it to cover up their mistakes. Do not feel under any pressure. Gently point out that they haven't yet placed your custom order. The different order they placed is nothing to do with you because it wasn't your order to your specification.

Nicee thinking, rotary.

[Char]

They are ordering the chair again per my exact specs. If I am lucky, maybe it will be here before Christmas considering this chair has been in the works since July!