[dorkette]

Althought this applies to both sexes, this is majorly directed to the ladies since I feel that guys are more outspoken and openly curious than us gals. And I'm not sure if there is the exact forum for this, but here goes...

I'm 20 years old and recently found myself with a more active social life since I moved out, and being out parties with guys around my age. I understand that for people who don't already know me, people are curious about the paralysis, how "so you really can't feel your legs?", and being the chair in general. Being paralyzed/wheelchair has never been a sensitive subject for me since its like I know its there, you know its there, if you're wondering what happened ask. However, with guys around it always seems quick to escalate to sexual related feeling quesitons. I understand they are curious, because if was walking around and met a guy I'd probably wonder too BUT I'd never had the guts to ask. I just don't know how the elquently handle the more evasive ones, even when they are geuninely curious and not intentionally trying to be pervy. Sometimes its funny stuff and that just makes me laugh, like if hair grows on my legs. And other times its if I can have sex/what would sex with me be like (usual standard response is virgin, haven't quite gotten there in life yet). This is been from guys I've known half my life, to people I just meet.

For example, saturday met a guy at a friend's birthday party. He was really sweet. I was sitting on his lap and he was rubbing my back. Generally if it's upper back (like above bra strap) I can feel like normal. And below basically to my waist I can feel you just have to apply a little pressure. So he was rubbing my back, tracing circles and what not, and after a little bit I just had to say... move your hand a little higher because right now its wasted effort. So that lead to him poking going "can you feel that" and tickling me and being cute. Anyway after i mention the "guidelines" for lack of a better phrase from above you could almost litterally hear the wheels turning in his head on what that should mean for me sexwise. And I don't know... I guess I'm just fustrated that it has to immedately jump to flirty stuff to more personal, if we'd had sex lines of thought.

I'm explaining this all really horribly because there are about a million thoughts going through my head about this and I'm trying to get them out where it makes at least some coherent sense. So any, thoughts, advice, or just a general I feel ya type of statement would be mucho appreciative.

[Texaswheelz]

You explained it well enough. You want a guy to get to know you for what you are and not for what sex might be like with you. Trust me, guys get the same thing. I used to always have girls at parties or clubs ask if I could still have sex, or want to ride in my lap and then ask if I could feel them on my lap and if I could feel...etc. It's just people being curious and you have to decide on how you want to handle it. You can be completely open with them and tell them yes or no on what you can or can't feel. Or simply tell them that you aren't comfortable talking about such issues with them at this point. I mean would a guy walk up to a AB girl at a party and ask her sex questions? Probably not, but add in being a para and they are both curious about what can and can't feel sexually and non sexually.

It's really hard to answer you question because it's a personal thing. I used to just tell them that yes I was still able to have sex just fine.

[steveB.O.P]

20 year old guys at parties."i remember when i was that age at parties i was horny as a bull frog"
Hang on i still am at 40 only i think i have better boundries now .
What ever you decide to share with people and how you go about doing it is up to you.
here are a couple of options
guy you like - we can talk about that later?
- why are you keen?
- are you flirting with me?
guy you dont like- thats information is not going to be any good to you anyway.
- i could tell you but that would be teasing.

[KarenFerguson]

I know exactly where you're coming from. Being disabled all my life, I've gotten many questions over the years & the sex question (as you stated) always came up quicker then I expected as well. I suppose it's just that guys are super curious, and I don't blame them - they're guys after all! Ah, that sounded a bit harsh. Hee hee.

For me, sometimes I would tell a curious fellow that I have "complete feeling" and they would be quite happy with that. Other times, I would say that "that's kind of a personal question and I would love to talk about it later" (ie. lets have a few dates and takes things a bit slower, I would like to get to know you better ... hint hint).

But I wouldn't be totally dismiss a curious guy ... it takes a lot of guts to flirt with girl in the first place, let alone ask her about sexual stuff right away.

Feel free to PM me anytime about other girly/disabled stuff.

[dorkette]

Y'all are awesome!! I know that it ultimately comes down to what I'm comfortable with saying but half of the problem was I didn't know what to say. I didn't want a complete shut down cause I didn't want to seem cold or closed off. Or that I was going to now go cry in a corner or something because they asked about the disability. Grr... I've been told I'm hard to approach in general which I've never understood because I think I'm very friendly and approachable. But at the same time I didn't want to be too fourthcoming where I sounded like a psycho.

Anyway, "thats information is not going to be any good to you anyway" hahaha. I'm am so planning on using that the next time. and thank you Karen for you PM offer!!

[Avocado Baby]

Oh my goodnes it happened again! I came on here to write a similar post and someone had beaten me to it!

Basically, I was going to ask, how much do you share with your friends and how much is too much information? It's often something that's bothered me but it's been getting to me alot this week.

The other day I had a group of my oldest and best friends over at my place and we were just messing around and the conversation turned to sex (it was mostly the guys!!) It was funny for a little while but they were going on and on so I went quiet, basically cos I'm 'different' and couldn't really comment on positions etc. This isn't the first time it's happened cos it's pretty much the same every time these two male friends get together but I really started to feel down about it. Well more frustrated than anything else and I really felt like I wanted to say something!

Also, the other day, my neighbour invited me to an Anne Summer party, which I got out of cos I was going to a friend's birthday but I just felt really awkward, not wanting to decline the invitation but knowing I'd feel awkward going. I mean I've yet to get any pleasure from a vibe. Unless...anyone tried one between your neck and shoulders?

Anyway, like I say, I have wanted to explain things to my friends so they can understand me rather than think I'm just prudish. Also with the bowel/bladder thing. I get really upset when people joke about people having wet themselves etc and ok, it's not the kind of thing you want to share with just anybody but, how much do you tell people?

One of my friends did start asking me questions yesterday about where my sensation stops so I think he might have started to figure. I've e-mailed him since explaining stuff to him and why I go all quiet when they start talking about sex and stuff and he sent me a really lovely reply. Made me cry!

Like Karen, I've had my disability all my life and it's kind of hard to know when and whether to tell people things cos they've known me as this way all the time they've known me so, in a way, I'm no different. Does that make sense?

Anyway..any thoughts?

I'll probably send you a PM at some point Karen.

[qbounce]

Of course we all have these concerns, guys/ gals alike. I'm just getting to this stage of wanting to tell people exactly what I go through. I think the more friends understand, the more intuitive they'll be about certain topics of conversation, and the easier it'll be for me to chime in with my input regarding sexual positions, etc. without getting weird stares back.

For me, it's all about my comfort level with my friends and what I'm willing to share with whom.

Being forthright and honest with a curious person is always your best bet, though. You may be surprised at the understanding you get in response! Of course, I agree that if the guy looks like a perv you have every right to disengage the conversation.

Oh, and for the record, Dorkette, the next time you enter a post regarding sex, just put the word 'SEX' in the title and see a bunch of us fighting to get a word in!!

[nomis]

Firstly, Dorkette, take it as a positive that you are seen as a sexual being (I'm not surprised, I've seen your picture). No curiosity would be harder to accept.

I think I relate to your difficulty in how best to handle your unconventional sensation areas...if that was one of the points you were making. I don't think I've probably ever totally solved this for myself. I find if I get specific about where I can and cannot feel the mood changes to some kind of educational lesson. I also noticed people would then exclusively focus on the area I said I could feel and neglect the rest of me which pissed me off.

Mostly, I shut up and go with what the other person is doing while I go for what I enjoy. As we get to know each other the touch communication becomes more honest and automatic as we respond to 'feel and response' rather than being busy in our heads wondering who is doing what.

Sure I like what I can feel through my skin but also I like it when lying next to a woman and she puts a arm around my lower back where I can't feel and pulls me towards her - I get plenty of messages telling me that feels good without actually knowing exactly where her arm is or what it is doing...and I respond accordingly. And presumably, whatever they are doing is cos they are enjoying it (silly of them if not).

Anyone I know usually has some idea of my sensation levels and from there I hold back on more specific info, deliberately, happy to keep it vague (so I don't miss out on anything new to me) until I feel comfortable being more specific (- yeah, right there, I really like that).

I think it's an expected transitional period in getting to know someone that many SCI's can't avoid. I guess you have to weigh up each situation.

[Tired of hurting]

Dorkette, It's good to hear someone else is bothered by this. Sex will never be the same as it was before SCI. I'm with you, I don't know what to say either some times. The feel thing I tired of, Can you feel this or that. It's just not the same.I have one friend and when it gets to intense with questions She says time out I don't want to talk about this. She never had sex before her injury. Now she has a wall up to not let anyone in. She is a beautiful girl,but she doesn't want to mess up someone elses life. I had commented I didn't want to share my nightmare with anyone. A friend in group said it's your nightmare,someone will love you for the person you are. Not your crippled legs and your wheelchair.My moto is if it feels good do it! If it doesn't tell them what you need to be happy. Good luck girl friend... PM if you want to girl talk

[dorkette]

Pink Ali: Hahaha, oh goodness you made me smile in understanding. I would like to think I'm not too naive or prudish in the realm of life (or sex) but I think I'd die of embarassment at an Ann Summer thing (which I had to go google what that even was!) or the thought of using a vibe. I'm not even brave enough to seriously try masturbation, but just from bathing, etc seem to have a fair amount of sensation.

The thing is, I'd much rather discuss sex than bowel/bladder with people. Maybe because sex is generally discussed already and bathroom stuff is so squicky anyway. I could start a whole nother topic on how long it took me to talk about that stuff with my friends. Short version is that it took years. For example same guy from Sat asked how I went to the bathroom. For one I was really taken aback by the question because who would even want to know about that and wanted to seriously go wtf? I was like "Wow, I'm not talking about that." Him: "Why? Don't be embarassed." Me: "Oh my God, no. That is so weird." Then he was really sheepish and applogetic about it.

Anywho, I feel like I say this a lot on here but I've also been paralyzed since birth. Another question that usually goes hand in hand with the sex one is if I can have kids. Its hard to explain that "no, but its more because the chemotherapy I had as an infant most likely made me sterile and that I shouldn't get preggers anyway because too much stress on my heart that was also messed up by chemo, rather than the physical disabiility.... pass me another smirnoff would you?" I know a simple no would probably work but then I don't want people taking on the impression that every handicapped person can't have kids or something.

qbounce: This was a few years back but how about when the father of your friend's boyfriend is asking you sensational questions and you're trying to be polite as can be and not freak since he is an adult and you are in his home but you're really thinking flip off perv. Ugh then he'd always talk about what a wonderful, strong, young woman I was... how I've been through so much. Gag. I mean thanks for realizing that my life hasn't been a piece of cake but I'm not your charity case or dinner conversation.

And LOL, thanks for the tip. I should have known... sex sells and all that. *wink*

nomis: Hahahahha, oh dear goodness, that made me laugh. I think I've worked hard with make-up, cleavage shirts, and dirty jokes to not be considered asexual. In highschool on more than one occasion I got, "I've just can't picture you dating someone/I'd be werid to think of you with a boyfriend." I know they mean no harm because I've thought that of other people, but it's still fustrating. And I'm still shocked (but I hide it well) when I'm flirted with or even seen as a girl/chick/female/woman because I seem to play the nice, gal pal role quite well. I've given guy friends so much girl prespective relationship advice thats it's laughable since I've never had one of my own. However, I think a good thing about meeting new guys recently that I haven't gone to school with for the past forever is they don't just see me as me but as viable flirting material.

(sorry that I ramble!)

I didn't mean to put the guy off of touching where I can't really feel. I meant it mostly as a joke (and said it in a humorous tone) because I felt bad what he was all trying to be nice/flirty what not and I couldn't even feel it. And I didn't even care much that I couldn't feel where he was touching except for that I had just met him that night so I thought it was a good idea to know where his hands were at all times, ha.

Also most of the time I can't feel if someone was touching my leg at all. Thats the part that usually facinates people the most. Yet if you tickle my foot it'll flex/twitch or if you put something cold on my leg it'll respond because technically all the nerves and stuff still work my brain just can't control them. And very rarely, I'll just know if someone is touching my foot/leg. I don't know how to describe the feeling, I'll just know.

Tired of hurting: I haven't gotten to the point sex-wise to throw up a wall, but I know I will. I've said before in a coversation with my roomates that I'd could never have a casual fling/one night stand. It wouldn't work. I mean, you're all in the mood and then its like wait baby what are those two little holes (stomas) on the side of your abdomen. Then you have to explain bathroom stuff which is decidely unsexy. I've made the comment that I'm no so idealistic that I have to be married or what not but just in a committed relationship where I know the guy truly, deeply, cares about me... so when the unfun parts of the paralysis comes up I know he's not gonna run off screaming. Which brings me to you're friend nightmare comment. I totally get it. I think I'm decently pretty, smart, nice, witty, good personality... you know things you should look for in a girl. However I know that I'm surrounded my girls who are equally all of those things that don't have the added hassle of disablity. And its usually by this point that my friends tell me to shut up and stop selling myself short, ha.

I'm sorry that this post was entirely too long but I wanted to respond to everyone!!

[qbounce]

Wow Dorkette,
You sure did fit us all in. . . thanks.

I'm glad I put the 'perv' disclaimer line in my first post that corresponds with the story you gave.

Something tells me since it's a few years later, now you would handle things alot differently.

[Tired of hurting]

dorkette, on Apr 17 2008, 03:32 PM, said:

Pink Ali: Hahaha, oh goodness you made me smile in understanding. I would like to think I'm not too naive or prudish in the realm of life (or sex) but I think I'd die of embarassment at an Ann Summer thing (which I had to go google what that even was!) or the thought of using a vibe. I'm not even brave enough to seriously try masturbation, but just from bathing, etc seem to have a fair amount of sensation.

The thing is, I'd much rather discuss sex than bowel/bladder with people. Maybe because sex is generally discussed already and bathroom stuff is so squicky anyway. I could start a whole nother topic on how long it took me to talk about that stuff with my friends. Short version is that it took years. For example same guy from Sat asked how I went to the bathroom. For one I was really taken aback by the question because who would even want to know about that and wanted to seriously go wtf? I was like "Wow, I'm not talking about that." Him: "Why? Don't be embarassed." Me: "Oh my God, no. That is so weird." Then he was really sheepish and applogetic about it.

Anywho, I feel like I say this a lot on here but I've also been paralyzed since birth. Another question that usually goes hand in hand with the sex one is if I can have kids. Its hard to explain that "no, but its more because the chemotherapy I had as an infant most likely made me sterile and that I shouldn't get preggers anyway because too much stress on my heart that was also messed up by chemo, rather than the physical disabiility.... pass me another smirnoff would you?" I know a simple no would probably work but then I don't want people taking on the impression that every handicapped person can't have kids or something.

qbounce: This was a few years back but how about when the father of your friend's boyfriend is asking you sensational questions and you're trying to be polite as can be and not freak since he is an adult and you are in his home but you're really thinking flip off perv. Ugh then he'd always talk about what a wonderful, strong, young woman I was... how I've been through so much. Gag. I mean thanks for realizing that my life hasn't been a piece of cake but I'm not your charity case or dinner conversation.

And LOL, thanks for the tip. I should have known... sex sells and all that. *wink*

nomis: Hahahahha, oh dear goodness, that made me laugh. I think I've worked hard with make-up, cleavage shirts, and dirty jokes to not be considered asexual. In highschool on more than one occasion I got, "I've just can't picture you dating someone/I'd be werid to think of you with a boyfriend." I know they mean no harm because I've thought that of other people, but it's still fustrating. And I'm still shocked (but I hide it well) when I'm flirted with or even seen as a girl/chick/female/woman because I seem to play the nice, gal pal role quite well. I've given guy friends so much girl prespective relationship advice thats it's laughable since I've never had one of my own. However, I think a good thing about meeting new guys recently that I haven't gone to school with for the past forever is they don't just see me as me but as viable flirting material.

(sorry that I ramble!)

I didn't mean to put the guy off of touching where I can't really feel. I meant it mostly as a joke (and said it in a humorous tone) because I felt bad what he was all trying to be nice/flirty what not and I couldn't even feel it. And I didn't even care much that I couldn't feel where he was touching except for that I had just met him that night so I thought it was a good idea to know where his hands were at all times, ha.

Also most of the time I can't feel if someone was touching my leg at all. Thats the part that usually facinates people the most. Yet if you tickle my foot it'll flex/twitch or if you put something cold on my leg it'll respond because technically all the nerves and stuff still work my brain just can't control them. And very rarely, I'll just know if someone is touching my foot/leg. I don't know how to describe the feeling, I'll just know.

Tired of hurting: I haven't gotten to the point sex-wise to throw up a wall, but I know I will. I've said before in a coversation with my roomates that I'd could never have a casual fling/one night stand. It wouldn't work. I mean, you're all in the mood and then its like wait baby what are those two little holes (stomas) on the side of your abdomen. Then you have to explain bathroom stuff which is decidely unsexy. I've made the comment that I'm no so idealistic that I have to be married or what not but just in a committed relationship where I know the guy truly, deeply, cares about me... so when the unfun parts of the paralysis comes up I know he's not gonna run off screaming. Which brings me to you're friend nightmare comment. I totally get it. I think I'm decently pretty, smart, nice, witty, good personality... you know things you should look for in a girl. However I know that I'm surrounded my girls who are equally all of those things that don't have the added hassle of disablity. And its usually by this point that my friends tell me to shut up and stop selling myself short, ha.

I'm sorry that this post was entirely too long but I wanted to respond to everyone!!

I was married for 29 yrs and had a great sex life,my husband didn't except SCI. Its funny with all my experience its hard for me to be interested. True love never dies...

[Kwag_Myers]

dorkette, on Apr 14 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

I was sitting on his lap...

Any straight guy with a 20 year old on his lap you can assume he's thinking about sex.

dorkette, on Apr 14 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

...he was rubbing my back...

That, too, would get him goin'.

dorkette, on Apr 14 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

...flirty stuff...

Yeah, that's strike three.

I'm not saying you did anything inappropriate. But from my experience, all any 20 year old male needs is some cutie to look his way and the hormones kick in. Add physical contact of any kind and he's wishing he'd have made the bed and picked up a little before he left for the party.

Guys, am I wrong on this?