65 replies to this topic

[StellaLAtella]

I had read somewhere that Senator John McCain's wife and one of his sons (not sure which one) are team drifters. If I were to slide across the road like that with my mom in the car, she would have slapped me silly!
Have fun!
~Stella

[Jax]

Yong, on Dec 30 2008, 10:10 PM, said:

Jax, on Dec 29 2008, 08:08 PM, said:

High enough horsepower, proper alignment, and proper tire selection (usually slightly softer compound on front than on back) on a FWD WILL drift. The other big concern with FWD drifting is technique.

Some good information. But when fwd's are sliding...it's not drifting...it's ASS-SLIDING. You say FWD drifting is all technique..but I can't think of a way you can drift with a fwd then just to e-brake...

Are you telling me you can drift in and out of turns continuously with a FWD? You might get ONE good slide with the e-brake and then understeer your way all the way to the wall. Same with AWD, you'll get too much understeer to get good CONSECUTIVE drifts.

Maybe it's a problem of our differing opinions on the definition of the sport of drifting. I'm just saying any box with wheels can slide..but to drift, you really have to be able to do it more than once consecutively.

Long Drift

If you can do this with a front wheel drive or an all wheel drive vehicle...you deserve a NOBEL.

and just in case...all of the Skylines, WRXs, EVOs you seen drifting...they have ALL been changed to RWD.

Prove me wrong.,

Only in corporate sponsored drifting is it normal to see RWD conversions on AWDs. That guy wasn't even hitting apexes very well. Here is an AWD drifting in the mountains.

Impreza AWD Drift

Don't have to drift every turn all the time, but I guess that's what sells tickets. As for the FWD, I have an arrest record and police reports if you would like to visit with the cops. As for corporate sponsored drifting, you can watch Rhys Millen teach the cast of 2 Fast, 2 Furious to drift in a 2G DSM GST on the special features. Also, look at rally EVOs. Those guys are AWD, and they can drift all day if they want. Watch some of their test footage on the web. Just because the sellouts all went to RWD, doesn't mean it can't be done with AWD or FWD.

Edited by Jax, 02 January 2009 - 07:33 PM.

[Yong]

Jax,

I don't think you really know what the sport of drifting is. Rally cars sliding during a real steep turn once won't win drift events. I saw your youtube and saw the RS drifting a tight curve. But then I also saw him lose momentum and fail to connect with a second drift.

Watch some LONG DRIFT videos on youtube and judge for yourself if the AWD really counts as a drift. Look at some D1 drift videos. Even Rhys Millen drifts with a RWD GTO.

As for FWD... you still haven't given me proof. I used to have a Prelude Type SH and i would slide in the parking pulling my e-brake. Sliding yes...drifting??..i think not.

More than one consecutive turn. Okay?

[Slowlegs]

Here it is after a lot of playing around with file size. It's a nice car just no hand controls which would have cost the price of the car. It actually had 80000 miles on it (117000kms) as I converted it wrong... I agree about the drifting vs sliding thing. Here is an example of some New Zealand drifters on Youtube and as far as I know (in my limited knowledge of the sport) the object is to keep your car as sideways as you can including along the straights as well as around the corners which is what you get points for. The rally car in the previous clip was just doing the ocasional slide and could have done with two or three times the power. As the handbrake has to be used to get or keep the car sliding, 4WD wouldn't really be as good as RWD or even FWD in drifting in my opinion.

Edited by Slowlegs, 03 January 2009 - 03:12 AM.

[Slowlegs]

Just found this on Youtube and it looks like an ok substitute to real drifting. Not too expensive.

Edited by Slowlegs, 04 January 2009 - 05:32 AM.

[Yong]

slow, looks like you got yourself an s13 coupe. that is so nice... prices are so jacked here in the US that just the headlights, fenders, and front bumper cover, and your hood would be at least 1500 USD. Wow...i'm so jealous...

maybe i should plan a trip to new Zealand sometime...

[Hikkakaru]

Pre-injury I was ALL into drifting. In between SCCA Solo-II sessions I was up in JustDrift and REV Motorsports stuff at Buttowillow and Willowsprings Raceway. Heres a pic of my old Mazdaspeed MX-5 I used to drive pre-injury, and my new car for post injury driving (I <3 SMG trans! )

P.S. If the sliding wheels aren't being powered it's sliding. If they are it's drifting.



annnd a crappy picture of my new car.

[Yong]

Hikkakaru, on Jan 14 2009, 05:03 AM, said:

P.S. If the sliding wheels aren't being powered it's sliding. If they are it's drifting.



annnd a crappy picture of my new car.
IMG_0050.JPG

THANK YOU! That's what I've been trying to say all this time.

As for an update... I'm going to need about 4000USD to have SR20DET engine professionally installed in my car with automatic transmission. I have about 2 grand... but I'm saving that up for a rainy day.

What an expensive hobby. I'll have my element paid for in 24 months...so once that's done i'll have some moolah.

A stock sr20det will give me about 210~230 rwhp (rear wheel horse power)... upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pump, forged pistons and rods will allow me to turn up the boost and give me about 300 rwhp. I'm so excited...but i think it's going to take some serious time...

I'm already planning on a wide body kit for the s13... racing seats... 17x9 17x10 rims.. and a fresh coat of paint. I think it'll be about 10k spent on the car once i'm done.

[Hikkakaru]

Yong, on Jan 14 2009, 04:25 AM, said:

Hikkakaru, on Jan 14 2009, 05:03 AM, said:

P.S. If the sliding wheels aren't being powered it's sliding. If they are it's drifting.



annnd a crappy picture of my new car.
IMG_0050.JPG

THANK YOU! That's what I've been trying to say all this time.

As for an update... I'm going to need about 4000USD to have SR20DET engine professionally installed in my car with automatic transmission. I have about 2 grand... but I'm saving that up for a rainy day.

What an expensive hobby. I'll have my element paid for in 24 months...so once that's done i'll have some moolah.

A stock sr20det will give me about 210~230 rwhp (rear wheel horse power)... upgraded fuel injectors, fuel pump, forged pistons and rods will allow me to turn up the boost and give me about 300 rwhp. I'm so excited...but i think it's going to take some serious time...

I'm already planning on a wide body kit for the s13... racing seats... 17x9 17x10 rims.. and a fresh coat of paint. I think it'll be about 10k spent on the car once i'm done.

10 inch rims? Are you going super stretched style? That's a lot of wheel/rubber for a 300 rwhp S13! I nearly bought an S14 with an S14.5 set of body updates and the S15 frontend in Honda Championship White. was beautiful. I was going to throw a 2jz-gte with an american auto 3 speed drag style trans and run 11's all day with a turbo upgrade. 2JZ's are so mean! Either way, sounds neat. Going slideways is a TON of fun. Problem i'm having with the M3 is that when I see lateral G's my legs want to spasm. Will be even worse when I switch to Tein Super Street Pillowball mount Coilovers! Worse in a good and bad way, haha

As for me, I am slowly buying all the V-CSL and GT-R parts for the M3 from Australia/Germany. Big expensive ordeal but who doesn't want a car that looks like a GTR M3?

[Hikkakaru]

By the way, ever seen this drift video?

[Slowlegs]

Hikkakaru, on Jan 14 2009, 09:56 PM, said:

By the way, ever seen this drift video?

That was awesome, good to see how it is done with hand controls. I have trouble with one lever and a steering wheel, don't know how he does it!

[Yong]

Hikkakaru, on Jan 14 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

By the way, ever seen this drift video?

yes i have. unfortunately...without corporate sponsorship, adapting a car to have manual hand contrls would be too expensive.

pretty cool tho, eh?

slow,

the 10 in rears are just for show anyhow...most people use drift spares (10~15 dollar used tires mounted on 15 inch steelies) when actually drifting. and by most people..i mean those of us who don't have a contract with bfgoodrich.. haha

but i'm surprised you know about the stretched look. impressive. once i get those rims..i would put probably 215s on them... i have a set of rims that are 15 x 8s and have 195s on them...

check this out: tire stretch

[Hikkakaru]

Yong, on Jan 15 2009, 05:29 AM, said:

Hikkakaru, on Jan 14 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

By the way, ever seen this drift video?

yes i have. unfortunately...without corporate sponsorship, adapting a car to have manual hand contrls would be too expensive.

pretty cool tho, eh?

slow,

the 10 in rears are just for show anyhow...most people use drift spares (10~15 dollar used tires mounted on 15 inch steelies) when actually drifting. and by most people..i mean those of us who don't have a contract with bfgoodrich.. haha

but i'm surprised you know about the stretched look. impressive. once i get those rims..i would put probably 215s on them... i have a set of rims that are 15 x 8s and have 195s on them...

check this out: tire stretch

I was in the JDM scene for many years. The wheels on the back of my miata in that picture are Volk TE-37 gravels off of my EJ6 93 civic coupe with B16B and Toda everything

Not sure about elsewhere in the U.S. but at drift comps here in CA spares are usually only suitable for the lesser powered crew, like the 86's and NA miatas. Most people here run cheapish Kosei's. I ran a mix of Volks and Racing Hart Mazdaspeeds

As for a 215 on a ten, that will DEFINETLY get you the stretched look. Hell I have 245's on the back of my 10's on my M3 and I think they are too stretched!
As for adapting a manual , have you read anything about Rediauto or Guido Simplex? They have systems for para's to actively use a 5 or 6 speed. Thats why I like my SMG, only mod I had to do to make it accessible for me besides the menox controls for gas and brake was rewire a button so I could have both up and down shift paddles on the same side. No more heel-toeing , but hell the ECU does that for me!

P.S. I used to mount tires with ether like that when I worked at Honda. Haha.

Edited by Hikkakaru, 16 January 2009 - 01:17 AM.

[Hikkakaru]

You know, i was just curious about something. With an automatic how are you going to reliably disrupt the rearend? Rely on inertial and kansei stuff or are you going to figure out a way to throw it in neutral to use the e-brake? Just a question.

[Yong]

Hikkakaru, on Jan 15 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

You know, i was just curious about something. With an automatic how are you going to reliably disrupt the rearend? Rely on inertial and kansei stuff or are you going to figure out a way to throw it in neutral to use the e-brake? Just a question.

welded rear differential... a lot of underpowered 240sx's have their two rear wheels locked so that they spin at the same rpm. although this is one of the cheapest ways of starting a drift (and you go through tires like babies do diapers)... because i can't have clutch control...welded diff would be one of the few ways i can initiate a drift. it just means i have to be careful when street driving because any hard throttle on the turn is always a possible drift

[Hikkakaru]

Yong, on Jan 16 2009, 02:29 AM, said:

Hikkakaru, on Jan 15 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

You know, i was just curious about something. With an automatic how are you going to reliably disrupt the rearend? Rely on inertial and kansei stuff or are you going to figure out a way to throw it in neutral to use the e-brake? Just a question.

welded rear differential... a lot of underpowered 240sx's have their two rear wheels locked so that they spin at the same rpm. although this is one of the cheapest ways of starting a drift (and you go through tires like babies do diapers)... because i can't have clutch control...welded diff would be one of the few ways i can initiate a drift. it just means i have to be careful when street driving because any hard throttle on the turn is always a possible drift

Ever driven a car with a real aggressive LSD or welded diff anywhere but a track? I remember trying to do figure eights in a mall parking lot with a miata and a welded set of spider gears. Absolutely miserable. Does add a TON to driftability though, and the Element is for daily driving

[Yong]

Hikkakaru, on Jan 16 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a car with a real aggressive LSD or welded diff anywhere but a track? I remember trying to do figure eights in a mall parking lot with a miata and a welded set of spider gears. Absolutely miserable. Does add a TON to driftability though, and the Element is for daily driving

haha..miata's are fun... i've never driven a car with a welded diff...but i've ridden in a couple..on a drift track and on the road...

You're right...it is dangerous..but lots of people in my neck of the woods are known to drive it on the streets. There are a whole bunch of 17~18 year old high school kids that have 240sx's with welded diff as their daily driver. Just have to be VERY VERY careful on turns...

I can't wait until I make some real money so that I can start this at full speed... i've just been buying little things for the turbo set up... but still have a ways to go.

[Mallee]

Yong, on Jan 18 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Hikkakaru, on Jan 16 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a car with a real aggressive LSD or welded diff anywhere but a track? I remember trying to do figure eights in a mall parking lot with a miata and a welded set of spider gears. Absolutely miserable. Does add a TON to driftability though, and the Element is for daily driving

haha..miata's are fun... i've never driven a car with a welded diff...but i've ridden in a couple..on a drift track and on the road...

You're right...it is dangerous..but lots of people in my neck of the woods are known to drive it on the streets. There are a whole bunch of 17~18 year old high school kids that have 240sx's with welded diff as their daily driver. Just have to be VERY VERY careful on turns...

I can't wait until I make some real money so that I can start this at full speed... i've just been buying little things for the turbo set up... but still have a ways to go.

Good to hear the fire for drifting is still burning for you.

Locked diffs can be a hassle to drive unless your on the throttle. They break axels too, usualy at times when you least expect, tight slow turns parking etc. Good LSD is the way but it does cost.

Brake bias to the rear and compression will get your angles, it doesnt take much to unload ther rear to get sliding. A well built auto wont stall your engine.

There are plenty of ways to do things and opinions are like assholes. It all comes down to Cashflow and how bad you want to do it & what extent.

I look foward to seeing you smoking through your first set of corners.

[Hikkakaru]

Mallee, on Jan 22 2009, 01:58 AM, said:

Yong, on Jan 18 2009, 04:25 PM, said:

Hikkakaru, on Jan 16 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

Ever driven a car with a real aggressive LSD or welded diff anywhere but a track? I remember trying to do figure eights in a mall parking lot with a miata and a welded set of spider gears. Absolutely miserable. Does add a TON to driftability though, and the Element is for daily driving

haha..miata's are fun... i've never driven a car with a welded diff...but i've ridden in a couple..on a drift track and on the road...

You're right...it is dangerous..but lots of people in my neck of the woods are known to drive it on the streets. There are a whole bunch of 17~18 year old high school kids that have 240sx's with welded diff as their daily driver. Just have to be VERY VERY careful on turns...

I can't wait until I make some real money so that I can start this at full speed... i've just been buying little things for the turbo set up... but still have a ways to go.

Good to hear the fire for drifting is still burning for you.

Locked diffs can be a hassle to drive unless your on the throttle. They break axels too, usualy at times when you least expect, tight slow turns parking etc. Good LSD is the way but it does cost.

Brake bias to the rear and compression will get your angles, it doesnt take much to unload ther rear to get sliding. A well built auto wont stall your engine.

There are plenty of ways to do things and opinions are like assholes. It all comes down to Cashflow and how bad you want to do it & what extent.

I look foward to seeing you smoking through your first set of corners.

Sounds like something i'd have typed!

Yeah I concur on the welded diff thing for sure. Hell even Kaaz and Cusco 2-2.5 LSDs are clunky as hell!

Compression and liftoff stuff is your bread and butter for sure, but the reason I asked is because in all my experiences in order to get a good showy angle i'd always have to either shiftlock, clutch kick, or e-brake. Small angle fast drifts are impressive to drivers, but big showy drifts are impressive to everyone

[Yong]

Project car update.

I bought 5-lug hubs to change my s13 from a 4 lug to a 5 lug. I still need to find hubs for the front and new rotors and calipers..

But these would allow me some CRAZY wheel and tire fitments.

I bought these knock-off mustang cobra rims from a buddy and painted them. They were red with glitters at first but i changed to flat black with a burnt orange lip.



Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that these are 17x9s front and 17x10.5 rears. That's pretty wide for a 240... but I'm going to put skinny tires and stretch the HECK out of them.

Next stop. COILOVERS!

My brother is taking the coilovers off of his S13 coupe and putting it on my hatch. Then once I save up enough for a professional SR20 swap... then i'll be putting 250 to the wheels EASY

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[fatdave]

Yong, Im starting to not like you! ( not really, I admire you for going forward with this project!)

you make my head swim with all these thoughts of past cars that I have owned and it makes me a little misty eyed.

When I was 15 years old I was offered a 1979 Buick le sabre Coupe. With the help of my friend (who is now deceased) we managed to acquire a 500ci cadillac from a '75 eldorado. over the winter we installed that 500 in the buick ( using a TH400 "borrowed" from my dads cutlass drag car) and a 14 bolt gm rear with full floating axles. ( out of a 3/4 ton GMC)

with Sanderson Headers and a holley 750 on a knock off edlebrock intake.

I loved that car, 6 miles per gallon, and enough torque to change the rotation of the earth. I wish I would have never welded the spider gears though, as that was the reason I ended up upside down in a ditch on my 16th birthday with it. I wish I had pictures of that car, it was the ultimate sleeper, baby shit green with white walls. only thing that gave it away was the rear axle.

after that I ended up with a 1986 grand marquis, we ended up putting a H.O. 5.0 with the 5 speed in that car, it was fun driving a huge boat like that with a 5 speed. should have never sold it.

Keep up the good work, and keep us informed!

[Miguel]

The guy in the youtube video above is Yoshi Shinya. Here is a link to his his article CLICK HERE.  Maybe drop the mag a line to get some info and advise.


Although not impossible to drift with an auto it has its complications. One of them being Autobox temps. Try not to shock the box i.e revving to 3 K and dumping it in D or even knocking it into N and the back into D to while moving to initiate a drift. You will end up roasting the clutch bands if you do and will get very familiar with swapping out boxes. They really don't like to be freewheeled, Autoboxes must be in gear at all times when not stationary. If you are thinking of going mad power wise on the box, look into giving it some help. A cooler and maybe even getting some of the accumulator pressures raised to help the box keep its act together by stopping it slipping its clutch packs so much. Makes the gear changes snappy too.

Treat the box with a little bit of mechanical sympathy and you should be fine.

Have fun, look forward to reading about how you get on.

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Edited by Miguel, 17 May 2009 - 08:10 PM.

[jp1337]

"and just in case...all of the Skylines, WRXs, EVOs you seen drifting...they have ALL been changed to RWD."


PLEASEEEE don't tell me you're serious. I'm not paralyzed in anyway, and what i saw here was so inspiring i give you kudos, wanting to be sideways with the rest of us is awesome... BUT!

awd drifting isn't impossible. it actually requires a lot less countersteering. to prove it watch this.

if you seriously think that awd drifting is impossible you have A LOT to learn about driving. not alone drifting. although it is very impossible to drift front wheel drive. honestly, the best thing i can suggest for you
is buying an xbox360 and getting forza 2. the physics are so close to life, as a matter of fact it taught me HOW to drift. its quite useful... and if you could somehow set a steering wheel to go off of the same idea of the xbox controller it would be just like playing the game except real. you should consider it. good luck in the future.

[akifromscunny]

jp1337, on Jul 16 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

"and just in case...all of the Skylines, WRXs, EVOs you seen drifting...they have ALL been changed to RWD."


PLEASEEEE don't tell me you're serious. I'm not paralyzed in anyway, and what i saw here was so inspiring i give you kudos, wanting to be sideways with the rest of us is awesome... BUT!

awd drifting isn't impossible. it actually requires a lot less countersteering. to prove it watch this.

if you seriously think that awd drifting is impossible you have A LOT to learn about driving. not alone drifting. although it is very impossible to drift front wheel drive. honestly, the best thing i can suggest for you
is buying an xbox360 and getting forza 2. the physics are so close to life, as a matter of fact it taught me HOW to drift. its quite useful... and if you could somehow set a steering wheel to go off of the same idea of the xbox controller it would be just like playing the game except real. you should consider it. good luck in the future.

i have had numerous real wheel drive cars what i enjoyed drifting in like toyota mr2s, bmw325 and a couple of nissan 200sx', but to behonest oneof the cars i found easiest to drift was infact an awd subaru impreza, very easy to get sideways and once it was sideways very easy to keep.
alot of fun!!

[fatdave]

akifromscunny, on Jul 16 2009, 06:27 AM, said:

i have had numerous real wheel drive cars what i enjoyed drifting in like toyota mr2s, bmw325 and a couple of nissan 200sx', but to behonest oneof the cars i found easiest to drift was infact an awd subaru impreza, very easy to get sideways and once it was sideways very easy to keep.
alot of fun!!

I drifted a 88 mr2 into a ditch after a rather sudden case of over steer... my friend still wont let me borrow any of his cars after that.

[toy]

[Ratticis]

"Drifting" is niether new or a sport. Why people waste their time/money with this shit I will never know. I guess it's just like all the geeks who buy a car, add a bunch of bolt on shit, then figure the're really 'car guys' with their 4 door 4 cylinder neon with the coffee can on the exaust and the end table bolted to the trunk lid. Sad state the world is in

[un_holyroller]

toy, on Jul 23 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

hey! thats me! I no longer own the car. I've switched gears to awd cars and rally racing.

Drifting was an absolute blast...then beating mullet sporting camaro owners with my little turbo 4 banger. Good times.

[Yong]

Ratticis, on Aug 15 2009, 10:33 PM, said:

"Drifting" is niether new or a sport. Why people waste their time/money with this shit I will never know. I guess it's just like all the geeks who buy a car, add a bunch of bolt on shit, then figure the're really 'car guys' with their 4 door 4 cylinder neon with the coffee can on the exaust and the end table bolted to the trunk lid. Sad state the world is in

I just saw this. Haha. Someone needs a hug...

I bet you think dressing in nice clothes and getting a fine haircut is also nonsense.

Sad state the world is in...

[Hikkakaru]

Ratticis, on Aug 15 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

"Drifting" is niether new or a sport. Why people waste their time/money with this shit I will never know. I guess it's just like all the geeks who buy a car, add a bunch of bolt on shit, then figure the're really 'car guys' with their 4 door 4 cylinder neon with the coffee can on the exaust and the end table bolted to the trunk lid. Sad state the world is in

Well, thankfully you aren't the one to dictate how everyone spends their money.

If it's one thing that irritates me, it's elitists. Regardless of if you're building an all-stops ALMS race-prepped car, or if you're just putting on a cat-back exhaust on your Honda Civic, an enthusiast is an enthusiast. Not very many people get the chance to start at the top of their chosen fields.The fact of the matter is that the aftermarket community has matured to the point that if you take any car from the showroom floor, with an additional 4-5 thousand dollars it can be made a reliable, fun HPDE and amateur track car with purely 'bolt-on' modifications. I'm not sure what the displacement or number of cylinders has to do with the owner being a 'car guy'. I think that a 'car guy' would have an unbiased love for ALL automobiles. They all have their roles, advantages and disadvantages.

I'm not sure what you think dictates a sport, but in my opinion it's certainly can be. The judging criteria is certainly questionable, but the fact that it's considered competitive enough for almost all of the American car manufacturers to spend millions of dollars trying to be at the top of it kind of validates itself to me. It's one of the few motorsports that the average joe who isn't into cars can go, watch it on tv, or whatever and become really into it, as it's exciting when compared to Indy or Sports Car racing from a spectator point of view.

If you have nothing productive to say about someone's hobbies, why open your mouth about it?

With that said , thought you might want an update on my car Yong. A few months ago I bit the bullet and bought myself the Turner Motorsports track sport plus kit, and love it so far

Quote

"• Turner TrackSport Coil-over suspension - (front and rear H&R/Bilstein fixed-valving dampeners matched to Turner customized H&R coil springs, and feature fully-threaded front shock bodies (not an imitation sleeve-over) and adjustable rear spring perches that allow you to precisely dial in front and rear ride height. (kit tends to lower the car 1-2" front and .75-1.6" rear). Each shock is engineered to work in harmony with its matched progressive-rate spring (about 400 lbs front and 650 lbs rear), together creating a finely tuned suspension system.
• Turner E46 M3 Sway Bar Set - 30mm 3-way adjustable front bar and 25mm 2-way adjustable rear bar, including sway bar bushings.
• Turner Adjustable Front Swaybar Links (pair) - Quiet operation and long life as the stock links, plus the strength and adjustability of rod-end style links. These allow you to neutralize preload on swaybars to balance the car.
• TMS Adjustable Rear Swaybar Links (pair)
• JTD Aluminum Rear Shock Tower Mounts (pair) "

At the same time I installed solid aluminum motor/trans/diff mounts, front contol arm bearings(to replace bushings),adjustable rear control arms, and stiff poly bushings everywhere to replace the worn (and more flexible) rubber bushings.

I think i'm the only one that likes the mods. The car rattles and vibrates (from the mounts) and everyone bitches about it being too stiff and noisy for a BMW , but I LOVE it. Really made the car feel solid. I'll take some pics soon so I can show off the ride height and such to you.

Now I just need to install these new rotors and hawk HPS's I got sitting behind me. I am so lazy sometimes. My pedal travel is terrible, and my pads are ~1.5mm , and I still haven't installed them. haha. No grind=no care.

Edited by Hikkakaru, 10 January 2010 - 02:23 PM.