23 replies to this topic

[Bish]

Hi all,

Has anybody used the wheelchair voucher scheme to buy a wheelchair from abroad (eg Sportaid)?

My local wheelchair service seem opposed to it and I notice that Ems said that her wheelchair service allowed her to do so.

If anybody has been down this route could they please leave me some details of their wheelchair service and maybe a contact number or name so that I can use this to influence the decision of my wheelchair service?

If you wanted to contact me directly my email addy is : robbishop1966@gmail.com

I cannot see why my local service isn't too keen on the idea - I thought the idea of the scheme was to get as suitable a chair for my needs as possible. Surely a more expensive US import that can be bought for a similar price to a below standard UK model makes sense.

Obviously a higher price does not guarantee you get a better product - but I intend to trial any chairs that interest me on Sportaid by contacting UK providers of those chairs. I am sure they wont be too happy if they found out that I did not intend to buy from them - buy hey ho!!

If anybody has experience of using the scheme to import a wheelchair please let me know - it may just influence my local service.
Many thanks,
Bish

[ems]

No probs!!

My wheelchair Service is Worthing, and the service manager there is called...Dawn Miller.. phone number is 01903 836500
I'm not using sportid as they seem to have put the prices up for delivery to the UK in the last yr or so, $420 quote from them for delivery!!!
Sooo another guy and myself are ordering from bike-on.com, speak to Scott My zr has come out at £1078 and he quoted us for two chairs coming over to Gatwick airport $145 each

The voucher, as your aware, is to cover your minimum clinical needs, if you can better you quality of life, just by choosing where you purchase your chair, surely thats a more efficient way of using the voucher My voucher is only £875 and thats a category G voucher.

I told my manager (who's my OT there) exactly what I was looking for. A GPV does not meet my clinical needs, I weigh 47 KG and to pick that thing and put it my car jeesh, doesnt beer thinking about, anyway those things came out like 10+ years ago, things have come on sooooo much since then, so why should they rest of my body have to suffer! I showed her website examples of the chair I want .. both from the UK and the US, and told her I shouldn't have to put money into a chair, not when in another county they would give me the right amount of money (for my *clinical needs*) to purchase a chair outright.. parts of east sussex you get £2500 which gets you a top of the range RGK max-lite with new spinergies!

I told her that this postcoding would in fact affect my quality of life, and its in the NHS's interest to promote my health and active lifestyle, the chair I want and cant afford would give me the best possible quality of life for my clinical circumstances.

I know its a bit over the top! But you actually have to fight them to get what you want/need, and I dont see hwy we should have to not when, as above, some health authorities basically give out that type of chair!

She couldn't refuse. Also the list of suppliers is a GUIDE. NOWHERE in thier terms and conditions does it state that the supplier has to be one in the UK. All the supplier has to be is one that will accept the NHS voucher They dont need to be on a list anywhere, they just have to say that they will accept it and invoice the said health authority

If they still refuse, start a conversation about the human rights act, you cant get them on the DDA unfortunatly .....



Disability Discrimination Act 1995

The Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (DDA) may impact on the provision of wheelchairs
given that the NHS and Wheelchair Services are service providers for the purposes of the
DDA. Part III of the DDA states that service providers must not treat people less favourably
for a disability related reason. This includes altering discriminatory policies, practices and
procedures and providing auxiliary services in some circumstances. From October 2004
service providers have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to discriminatory physical
features.
An important point to note is that disabled people will not be able to use the DDA to
challenge the statutory provisions and rules governing wheelchair provision because DDA s59
effectively exempts service providers from DDA duties when the service is carried out in
compliance with a statutory duty. The DDA may be used to protect disabled people if they
have been treated less favourably in other ways by the NHS or Wheelchair Service, for
example not being given information about wheelchairs in an accessible format (eg on tape
or in braille).

Human Rights Act 1998[size=2]

The Human Rights Act 1998 ensures that public authorities act in ways that are compatible
with the basic rights enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). The
NHS and Wheelchair Services would be classed as public authorities. ECHR Article 2
guarantees the right to life and could be used to protect disabled people who face life
threatening situations unless an appropriate wheelchair is prescribed. Similarly Article 3,
which protects people against inhuman or degrading treatment, and Article 8, which provides
the right to private and family life may be relevant to disabled people in the provision, or non
provision, of wheelchairs.




Hope this helps you

Emma.

[Bish]

Hi Emma,

Thank you soooooo much for such a great reply.

I have printed what you have advised and will be contacting my wheelchair service on Tuesday - so they had better be up for a fight!!!

I will also check out bike-on.com. I have never been on that site before so hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks Emma,
Bish

[Bish]

Emma,

I forgot to ask you this bit. This is the 1st time i will (hopefully) be importing a wheelchair so I would appreciate your wisdom please.

I know I have to contact the NIRU and apply for a certificate for duty relief plus also fill in Form 371( think that is correct) but what do i need to do with both of these things?

Do I need to say anything in particular to bike-on so they know I am disabled etc etc.

What happens when it gets imported - do I have to go to an airport to collect or does it get delivered direct to my home? If it is to be collected from an airport do I need any particular paperwork to show?

Sorry for all the questions - I have been searching online for this info but there is nothing like getting it direct from somebody that has actually done it before.

Many thanks,
Bish

[ems]

No probs!
You only need one form, and that is the bob standard zero vat form to say you are importing goods as a disabled individual. below is the pdf doc ith the form you will need to sign and send off usually to customs. Though I didn't do it at all last time, I faxed a copy over to the supplier and it was sent in with the airway bill. You can of course have it shipped direct to your house, It will be slightly more expensive. Bike-on will ship the parcel with a customs note explaining that the item inside is a wheelchair. It will be given something called a commodity code, where it automatically gets zero rated, but Scott would put also put something else in writing on the shipment note.
I had a prob with my first bike I got over a few yrs back, and all I eneded up having to do was fax over the form to customs and it was released with the hour, (on the pdf file here ..


********************************************************************************
******

10.1 Eligibility declaration by a disabled person

Please note there are penalties for making false declarations

Customer

If you are in any doubt as to whether you are eligible to receive goods or services zero-rated for VAT you should consult Notice 701/7 VAT reliefs for disabled people or contact our National Advice Service on 0845 010 9000 before signing the declaration.

I (full name) ..............................................................................

of (address) ..............................................................................

................................................................................
..................

declare that:

* I am chronically sick or have a disabling condition by reason of: (give full and specific description of your condition); and that
* I am receiving from: (name and address of supplier)
* the following goods which are being supplied to me for domestic or my personal use:
(description of goods)
* the following services to adapt goods to suit my condition:
(description of services and goods)
* the following services of installation, repair or maintenance of goods:
(description of services and goods)
* the following alterations to my private residence:
(description of alteration)
* the services of monitoring a personal alarm call system

and I claim relief from value added tax.

................................................................................ (Signature)

................................................................................
........ (Date)

Supplier

I (full name) ................................................................................
..

of (address) ................................................................................
..

................................................................................
......................

am supplying to the person named above:

* the following goods:
(description of goods)

* the following services of adapting goods:
(description of services and goods)

* the following services of installation, repair or maintenance of goods:
(description of services and goods)

* the following alterations to a private residence:
(description of alteration)

* the services of monitoring a personal alarm call system

for the personal use of the disabled person.

................................................................................ (Signature)

................................................................................
........ (Date)

*Delete words not applicable

Note

You should keep this declaration for production to your VAT officer. The production of this declaration does not automatically justify the zero-rating of the supply. You must ensure that the goods and services you are supplying qualify for zero-rating.


********************************************************************************
**


You do need a SAD: Form C88 if the package is freight. Its going door to door you wont. All you will need is the form above, sent with the package.


...and it was all sorted. I've been getting things over from the states for 10 yrs, and that was the only ever problem I've had.

One other thing is I always pay cash.. well I do a money transfer, cos lets say $3000 on a credit card and you don't know what the exchange rate is their using.. hmmmmm!!! I've never paid for the transfer, and I've always had 24hr transfer. Some places charge, my last bank did, so I explained what the money was for and they sympathize and let you have a priority transfer!

any probs mail me

Edited by ems, 03 May 2008 - 10:44 PM.

[Bish]

Thanks Emma - You've been a great help
Bish

[russ1]

According to the Govt notice 371 on importing goods you need the form you quote (for VAT relief) PLUS the NIRU certificate for Import Duty relief. That's certainly what I got when I did it. However it may be that there's a certain amount of leeway with the rules and that officials seeing the disabled goods VATdeclaration will just not bother with the rest of the documantation knowing that's it's all exempt anyway.

I imported a bike from Bike-on about 4 years ago and it was a PITA having it sent as freight to Heathrow and processing the import forms myself - you have to go to a Govt office with the paperwork once the bike lands in this country to get customs clearance and then go to the freight handling company to get the package. Thing is the office is only open once a week and the freight handling company will charge you for storage if you don't pick the package up within 24 hours of their recieving it. I got charged an extra £40 by the freight handling company at Heathrow just to pick up the package which wouldn't have been so bad if I'd been expecting it. Would certainly be better a second time knowing what to expect but having stuff sent direct to your home is a much simpler option IMHO if more expensive.

Bish - please let us know if you manage to get this by your wheelchair services - I'm due a new voucher in about 6 months and might try this if others are getting sucess.

[ems]

Very true, but door to door it isn't considered freight, no idea why!! When I got my last bike over from States, I used an agent called Air Marine, only did it cos I had two bikes over and one was for someone else.. and it was just easier.. It cost me an extra 50 bucks to have to the door last time instead just to the airport, which I think is definitely worth it, in diesel, form filling in and sorting out the paperwork for customs. Fedex did send me a bill for about £180 once and I just phoned them up and explained about the form, and then faxed *another* one to them and it was all fine then.

The other form your talking about is only needed if you don't have a specific commodity code for the items in the package. If you call customs and ask for the commodity code for your items, your put through to their disability department, who have a whole list of things, handcycles up until 3 yrs years ago did not have a code, they were just seen as a bicycle. So when I got my first bikes, thats why I got hit with a bill, and I had to prove that they were made for and designed specifically for a disabled person. Obviously if you've got other things int e same box, you need the codes for those too!
My last bike from Scott was door to door anyway cos I didn't have tome to pfaf around as it was for a race, and I just signed at the door, my copy of the zero Vat for import was still in the documents ont he side of the box, in fact I think there were about 4 photocopies, and that was that! Fedex International Economy has always been the cheapest to the door so far, only if the supplier has an account.

Edited by ems, 05 May 2008 - 04:33 PM.

[Bish]

Russ,

I am actually seeing my wheelchair service tomorrow (Tues 6th) and I have prepared a document with prices, weights etc etc of what I can afford in the UK - compared to what I can get from the States.

Along with the info that Ems supplied me with I think I have enough evidence for them to agree to me buying from abroad - but you know what the NHS is like - so fingers crossed.

Touch wood I will give you the good new tomorrow.
Bish

[Lucydog]

Wow the prices on Bike On are great! Im looking at the Colours Boing in particular and Im also due a voucher within the next few months. Frankly Ive never found the voucher system much good because given prices in this country I just dont have the extra £1000 thats needed to top it up to get something decent. This way I could get something nice.

good luck Bish!

[ems]

Get them to phone Dawn Miller at worthing.. I'm Emma from Ferring.. She'll know ;)

[Bish]

Just in case anybody decided to contact Dawn Miller at Worthing Wheelchair Service, the number is actually (01903) 846500 not (01903) 836500....if you ring the latter you get a letting agent!!! HeeHee!

Dawn isn't in until tomorrow (Wednesday) so I will contact her then - but i meet my own wheelchair service later today and let you know what they say.
Have fun
Bish

[russ1]

ems, on May 5 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

Very true, but door to door it isn't considered freight, no idea why!! When I got my last bike over from States, I used an agent called Air Marine, only did it cos I had two bikes over and one was for someone else.. and it was just easier.. It cost me an extra 50 bucks to have to the door last time instead just to the airport, which I think is definitely worth it, in diesel, form filling in and sorting out the paperwork for customs.

Fedex International Economy has always been the cheapest to the door so far, only if the supplier has an account.

Door to Door is considered as Post ! and comes under different rules and is definately worth paying the extra for - just wanted to make people aware that there is the two different systems and that the freight route is a right royal PITA. Unfortunately when I got my bike (from Bike-on) 3 years ago I wasn't given the option. Nice guys to deal with though.

Good luck Bish

[Bish]

Does anybody know how the Wheelchair Service calculates the maintenance costs if you use the independent option?

They have told me I will get £45 for maintenance costs for the 3 yrs of the voucher (£15 per yr) - it costs me more than that to replace one tyre!! (ok I can get cheaper but I do have standards!!)

Bish

[Bish]

Quick update.

My wheelchair service (Worcs) have no intention of buying from America. I dont know what it is with them but they (management side) are soo arrogant. The barriers were up instantly and she did not even want to listen to me explaining why buying a decent chair from America is a good idea.

I told her that Worthing Wheelchair service have done so - I even showed her the contact details provided by Ems - but she did not even look at the piece of paper.

I eventually got her to listen (a little bit) and she said that if i got written proof that a company was willing to deal with the wheelchair service she might look into it - but said it would be doubtful.

I even said that I would fund the money and get reimbursed by the Wheelchair service - she just does not want to do it whatsoever. It is really frustrating.

Not quite sure what the next step is to take this further. I'll ring the PCT to see what they have to say.
If anybody has any better ideas please let me know - Im not letting this one lie thats for sure!!

Cheers,
Bish

[ems]

OMG!! Well, firstly I'd say well done for trying, but now I'd tell her quite bluntly that she not actually allowed to tell you where you CANT get it, she is allowed to SUGGEST where you COULD get one, but nowhere in the terms and conditions you signed for your voucher does it say that you HAVE TO use someone on their so called accredited list and only in the UK. You did not sign for any terms and conditions that were not on top of your signature. Read very carefully what you have signed.

I personally would now make the phone call tomorrow morning, requesting a meeting with the manager within 14 days. I would also advise them as this matter affects your quality of life,and the Human Rights Act may come into play here. When they know your serious, I bet you they will change your mind. They cant afford small things like this to go to court, cos they know you'll win! If I didn't win my case first time round and all it was was one meeting.. I'd have taken them straight to small claims, for breeching the terms and conditions set out by themselves.
I would now contact my MP by phone telling him how local services are treating you.

Make the phone call

If you need any help.. I'll give you my number.. pm me.

Please don't give up, I didn't fight with them only so I could get my chair, EVERYONE should be able to choose the chair that they feel suits their lifestyle and would give them a better quality of life.

AND dont let them do a ..." how about we give you ten years worth"... they tryed that with me first.. and I told them that no one can look that far ahead, and the chair may not actually last for ten yrs,... NO THANK YOU!! For them its nice cos its just an accountancy trick!!


ems ;)

[Bish]

ems,

it was the manager I spoke to!! I could not believe how rude she was - totally dismissing my request before I even got to explain the pros and cons - she put up her barriers instantly.

Don't worry - I am definitely a fighter. I have already contacted my PCT and forwarded them an email explaining the matter. I have also rang Scott from Bike-on and we have come to some kind of agreement to get around the Voucher, for now.

He is reluctant to send the wheelchair and then worry if he will be paid by the NHS - understandably as he doesn't know how the system fully works. What he did suggest that we pay him in the normal way (credit/bank card) and when he receives the funds from the NHS Voucher he will then reimburse me my money back.

My wheelchair service wont entertain buying abroad unless Bike-On accept the voucher scheme ...even if I tell them he is willing to...I still wont hold my breathe that they will agree...but if you dont ask...blah blah..

He was quite excited by this and said he would contact his Foreign Exchange company to set up a UK Sterling account as soon as we finished on the phone.

I know not everyone can afford to do this (me included) which is why I am, as we speak applying online for a credit card that gives you 0% on borrowing so I dont pay any charges until May 2009.

This sounds made up, but honestly it isn't, I have just been accepted (Capital One creditcard)...YIPPEE!!!

I may well be a guinea pig doing it this way with Scott (bike-on) - but I think if this works and he gains trust in the Voucher scheme he will stop asking for people to pay up front and simply accept the Voucher. Time will tell.

Oh yeah...he says "hi" to you ems

ems...did you fund yours this way or did you pay with your Voucher?
FANKOOOO
Bish

[russ1]

There's a very interesting document on the web that sets out the voucher scheme at http://www.dh.gov.uk...p;Rendition=Web the problem you're going to struggle to get round is the approved supplier bit - if your local wheelchair service doesn't want to appoint a company in the states as an approved supplier it's difficult to see how you can make them and they will use the guidance to them for the correct operation of the voucher scheme is that an approved supplier should have demonstration stock and a local showroom, repair services etc. They clearly CAN approve whoever they want but whether they have to approve whoever you want is a more difficult point. There's little reason why they shouldn't though other than to be difficult and that's where making yourself a PITA is going to be your biggest weapon.

You may get them to agree if they can see that you're not going away and they can either agree to allow it for you or you'll fight them for a much better value voucher to fund a suitable chair from an approved supplier.

Best of luck and I truly hope they roll over once you make a fuss - I suspect the letter to your MP will be the best bet - I've certainly heard good reports of people getting much better value vouchers from their wheelchair services going down this route.

[ems]

Wheelchair Service Voucher Scheme 2006[size=2]

IF I WOULD LIKE TO APPLY FOR AN INDEPENDENT VOUCHER WHAT DO
I DO?
If you are offered an Independent Voucher you may choose any chair from
any supplier that meets the clinical requirements of the prescription and is
within the category (Manual/Epic) for the chair prescribed to you.

We will send you paperwork confirming the Value of the Independent
Voucher that we are willing to offer you. The Value of the Voucher will be
calculated by the net cost of the chair that would be prescribed for you by
the NHS, plus VAT, plus a percentage of the net price of the chair to cover
payment for repair and maintenance during the Five year duration of the
Voucher.

You may know which chair you would like to purchase. You may have
used a specific chair in the past and prefer it to the chair offered to you
during your assessment or you may wish to purchase a chair that you
have seen or tried elsewhere.

To ensure that you have the opportunity to review all the choices available
to you we will send you a letter telling you the Value of the Voucher that
we can offer you, the prescription for your wheelchair, and a list of Voucher
Suppliers. You can approach Wheelchair Suppliers direct and request
that they provide an assessment and suggest a wheelchair based on the
prescription, but also including any additional features or accessories that
you require.

Once you identify a chair that suits you and your partner/carer you must
request a written quote and a detailed specification from the supplier,
including a unique quote reference and the supplier’s terms and conditions
for delivery. Return the quote and the full specification to the Wheelchair
Service.

The quote will be passed to your therapist to ensure that the chair offered
meets the clinical specifications of the prescription and does not refer to a
chair in a category other than was specified in the Voucher Offer. If your
therapist approves the quote we will prepare the Independent Voucher
Agreement.

Wherever possible we recommend that you choose a supplier from the list
of Voucher Preferred Suppliers that we include with your Voucher
Information. The reason for this is that these suppliers have worked with
the Voucher Scheme before and are aware of the procedures for claiming
reimbursement from the NHS, however, you are at liberty to choose a
supplier not on the list.

Edited by ems, 07 May 2008 - 08:57 AM.

[Bish]

Good News!!!

I have today received confirmation from my wheelchair service (Worcestershire) that they are now prepared to allow me to purchase my wheelchair from the States...YIPPEE!!

I'm not sure whether it was the letter my local MP sent or the letter I sent to my local PCT that changed their minds...or maybe it was just common sense and their very caring nature (NOT!!), but whatever the reasoning I can now go ahead and find a suitable chair...YIPPEE!!

Why it took all these letters, phone calls and threats with the Human Rights Bill I do not know, but at least common sense has prevailed and i can now get a chair that I would not have been able to afford in the UK.

I hope many of you question your very own Wheelchair Service and also consider buying from America. Don't be put off if they initially say no...fight it, and maybe do what I have done. It is frustrating and sometimes like hitting your head against a brick wall....but the outcome makes it all worth while.

I'll keep you posted as to what I need to do to get the chair through customs etc etc as I go through this myself. This is brand new to me, so if anybody who has done this before has any pointers I would gladly listen.

Thanks,
Bish

[Trinity]

Hi Bish,

Congratulations!!!

How are you going to sort out the payment? Are you going to pay and then be reimbursed or can the supplier claim for the payment directly?

Anyway let us know how you get on

Trinity X

[russ1]

Nice one - I'm due for a new voucher in September and will have a go myself then depending on what I decide to get but the ZRA would be very tempting at US prices.

Would be interested to know how you sort out payment too.

Well done again

Russ

[Bish]

Hi Trinity & Russ,

I am sort of a guinea pig with Bike-On as they want to see how the whole scheme works before they accept payment via the Voucher Scheme in the "usual" way.

I am paying by credit card (I have just got the Capital One Credit Card specifically for buying this wheelchair - no fee for 12 months on purchases). My wheelchair service have agreed to send the voucher to Bike-On (when I receive the chair), then Bike-On will refund me the value of the voucher. (My wheelchair service don't know this bit - they think he is accepting the voucher as per the "usual" way - but I just know that they would have refused to accept the voucher if they knew I was using my own money)

I know this is not an option for most people, but I have been speaking to Scott (at Bike-On), and if this works satisfactory then he will accept the voucher scheme without the need for you to use your own money - the same way it works in the UK.

He has set up an account with his Currency provider specifically to deal with the UK pound and has told me he will meet the cost of this service and promises not to pass on the costs to us. He said he will work out the cost on the day you order (using an online currency conversion site (that we both agree on) and the exchange rate on that day will be the exchange rate for the purchase.

As it is, nothing has been finalised yet, he is waiting to see how this works first before he makes this decision - so I will keep you posted.

Bish

Edited by Bish, 17 May 2008 - 09:36 PM.

[Bish]

Good News At Last!!

My wheelchair service have given up the fight and agreed to let me buy a wheelchair from America using the voucher scheme.

YIPPEE!!!

I think the letters to my local MP and to some top bloke at the PCT accusing them of abusing my Human Rights certainly helped (thank you to all those that helped me with all that stuff).

To give you an example of how much I am saving here are actual quotes from Gerald Simonds (UK) and Bike-on (America)

Gerald Simonds £3,006 ($5,873)
Bike On $3973 (£2033)

(Conversion using www.xe.com)

This does not include shipping which they guestimate to be approx £150. Even so, that is a saving of over £800 and the chair quoted by Gerald Simonds was basic and did not have titanium this that and the other on it as per the Bike-on quote.

There is a down side to this however. At the mo I am paying in full using a credit card (got one for 0% on purchases for 12 months) and when the voucher is issued to Bike-on they will refund me the amount back.

Hopefully when they see that this system actually works, Bike-on will then accept the voucher scheme in the usual way without you having to use your own money upfront. But for a saving of £800 who's complaining eh?

Cheers guys,
Rob