55 replies to this topic

[topperf]

Can someone please explain to me, what the story is with the fda?
I'm asking because i've found out, after being injured, that they have, well, the final ore a huge
say, regarding research done in the US.
i've spend some time looking for answers, but i'm not shure what to think,
please fill me in on this.

Who's "side" are they on?

1/ we love 'em, they are the ones who make shure that we're not presented with anything "uncertain"

2/ we hate 'em, they are in the way of progress.

3/ we need men like Arthur Hull Hayes, who would trust companys as for example Geron to help the
paralysed community.

4/ we care not, everything considered, they don't matter

5/ etcetera, etcetera.

if this is as old and boresomme a discussion as i fear it might be, please paste some links that could inlighten me.

big thanks upfront.

Thomas. "thequaddane"

Edited by topperf, 25 May 2008 - 05:37 PM.

[Hapahowlee]

topperf, on May 25 2008, 07:36 AM, said:

Can someone please explain to me, what the story is with the fda?
I'm asking because i've found out, after being injured, that they have, well, the final ore a huge
say, regarding research done in the US.
i've spend some time looking for answers, but i'm not shure what to think,
please fill me in on this.

Who's "side" are they on?

1/ we love 'em, they are the ones who make shure that we're not presented with anything "uncertain"

2/ we hate 'em, they are in the way of progress.

3/ we need men like Arthur Hull Hayes, who would trust companys as for example Geron to help the
paralysed community.

4/ we care not, everything considered, they don't matter

5/ etcetera, etcetera.

if this is as old and boresomme a discussion as i fear it might be, please paste some links that could inlighten me.

big thanks upfront.

Thomas. "thequaddane"

Hey Top,
My hubby is a C5,6,7 incomplete. We are as frustrated as you about the FDA. Supposedly there aren't enough studies or information on cures for SCI. There are a lot of studies going on with Stem Cells that have worked like for diabetes and heart rejuvenation after a heart has been damaged by an attack. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a government that feels some of this stem cell research is wrong, inparticular embryonic stem cell research. If these embryos are being disposed of anyway, why can't they go towards something that will turn into good? In 1995, my husband and I went down to visit the Miami Project people. He called ahead and talked to some people to explain he wanted to get involved in any studies they might have going on. My husband was set up with an appointment with a Dr. who examined him as any other Dr. would and prescribed baclofen. We were like, "What the HELL?" First of all, my husband already had a physiatrist (sp?) at home who prescribed diazepam for his spasms and second, we wanted to meet the head Dr. who is Dr. Barth Green. Hubby got sent off to get X-rays and his first MRI. He was never able to get an MRI before because of all the wire in his neck. We were told if we came back in two days we could meet with Dr. Green Almighty. After waiting an hour, we met him while he was rushing around. The original Dr. had asked Dr. Green to look at the X-rays and MRI and give an opinion. We brought along a tape recorder and asked if we could tape what he had to say. Dr. Green then got out his own and told us he would record it and have it typed and sent back to us. Two years later, I wrote to the original Dr. about how disappointed we were with that visit. We received an apology letter along with the X-rays and MRI, but no offer to use my husband in any studies. At that time my hubby was in really good shape. He had huge muscles, full sensation everywhere, good trunk control, no cath, no bowel program, etc. Supposedly the therapy that was being used (electrodes) they claimed would be too painful for my husband. But there were other studies going on that they dismissed. Pisses me off when we get a newsletter from the Miami Project and see Dr. Green Almighty schmoozing with all the celebrities. We got an insulting fundraising letter from Mrs. Buonoconti that told her story about how she received a phone call that was about her son who broke his neck then she went on to write, "How would you like to receive a call like this?" Well guess what bitch? My husband's family did. They have no idea the letters they are sending are going to people who have SCI. Idiots!

I've been just Googling research stuff and seems there are some research institutes in the U.S. that are getting close to finding a cure. By close I mean within the next 10 years. Keep praying (if you do that sort of thing), cross your fingers, don't give up hope, etc. Keep a positive attitude as best you can. All the Drs. I've spoken with within the past year seem to believe there will be a cure soon. Take care!

[topperf]

Hi Hapahowlee.

Thank you very much for your respond!
It's very diffecult for me to understand what exactly is going on in your neck of your woods, but what i do know, and i want to applaud you for this, is, that when US take action, things get done. (being european, this can cause much ambivalence, but better leave that for now:)

for example, I recently read that your military posted 250 extra mill. into research, to help injured troops returning from iraq and afghanistan, this might "rub of" on the SCI community = great news.

Mr Bush decides against kongress single handed... = well, I can't describe my feelings regarding this in a decent way, so ...

so, is Fda under pressure from his administration, ore can they navigate for themselves?

big thanks again!

Thomas.

[Hapahowlee]

topperf, on May 26 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

Hi Hapahowlee.

Thank you very much for your respond!
It's very diffecult for me to understand what exactly is going on in your neck of your woods, but what i do know, and i want to applaud you for this, is, that when US take action, things get done. (being european, this can cause much ambivalence, but better leave that for now:)

for example, I recently read that your military posted 250 extra mill. into research, to help injured troops returning from iraq and afghanistan, this might "rub of" on the SCI community = great news.

Mr Bush decides against kongress single handed... = well, I can't describe my feelings regarding this in a decent way, so ...

so, is Fda under pressure from his administration, ore can they navigate for themselves?

big thanks again!

Thomas.

Sorry Thomas, I read so many posts on here; I thought you are in the U.S. The FDA is a program under the Federal Health and Human Services Department. There are so many government branches involved in the finding drugs, cures, etc. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) gives funding to scientists to do research, but they have to follow guidelines that have been set by our “Oh so open-minded” president . . .BUSH! If a drug/cure is discovered it has to be submitted for approval by whatever program is under the Fed. HHSD. If it is a drug that would be the FDA. As far as any pressure from the current administration to approve or disapprove any drug, well that may be taking place behind closed doors, but it also has to do with Congress and yes, Bush can knock it down. Even though there are Federal Guidelines to follow for funding, each State has their own say in where their funding goes for research, but they can be pressured by the Federal Gov’t into not funding a particular type of research by threatening to not give funds to that particular State. For instance, I remember when the legal drinking age was 18. As years went by each State changed their laws to up the legal drinking age to 21. Any State left that had not changed and gone along with the majority, was penalized by the Federal Govt. by not receiving their usual amount of funding for particular programs. So U.S. citizens need to be aggressive about getting people in office who are open minded about stem cell research and hopefully more funds will be freed up to do so, but right now there is a war being funded.

Regarding the 250 mil. to help fund research for the injured troops, I hope this is really the case, but in my experience as a dependent of someone who was in the military for 25 years (my father), the care in military hospitals are horrible. My father passed a few years ago, but my mother is still able to go to the local military base for medical care. Well, I should say most of the time. Since there is a war going on, there have been cutbacks for families of retired military personnel. There aren’t enough Drs. to take care of everyone, so my mother at times has been told she will have to go to a civilian hospital. Many years back, my mother went into the hospital to have her gallbladder removed. While they had her cut open, they decided to just go ahead and take out her appendix, just because they were in there. I could be wrong, but my feeling with military medical care that they would rather cut off an arm or leg than do reconstructive surgery. Maybe things have changed. Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for our troops, it’s just the commander and chief who grates my nerves.

I hope I shed some light on this subject for you. When I get a chance I will go through my bookmarks and post the links to some informative research sites. Take care.

[E-DOG]

If the President says Stem Cell Research is wrong, it must be!
After all, he IS the president.
Who are we, as para's and quad's to question a religious fanatic with his head so far up his ass daylight has to be piped in?
My goodness people, know your place. Sit back, shut up, an' roll around like the good gimps that you are.
Making waves, like a bunch of seditious, lunatics will only put a hitch in the giddi-up of a leader who's trying his best to do the right thing for his fabulusly rich cronies and family.
Which brings me to why I never vote.
It only ecourages them.
Thomas, I know I've kinda gone off on a tangent here, but SHIT people piss me off!
Sorry kiddo,
E-dog

[topperf]

First: dear Hapahowlee.

Again, you are being more than helpfull, thank you very much!
I wasn't aware that the different states could be pressured like that,
I must say, that the situation seems even worse that i thought. dammit.
still, it comforts me to think that the next crook in the white house is less darth vader and more christopher reeve, when it comes to visionary research. (at least that's the impression i get, but who knows..)
I'm looking forward to the links, again, thanks a bunch.

take care.

second: dear dawg.

"Which brings me to why I never vote.
It only ecourages them."

Thank you for putting a big fat smile on my face.

see ya pops!

[carole338]

E-DOG, on May 26 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

If the President says Stem Cell Research is wrong, it must be!
After all, he IS the president.
Who are we, as para's and quad's to question a religious fanatic with his head so far up his ass daylight has to be piped in?
My goodness people, know your place. Sit back, shut up, an' roll around like the good gimps that you are.
Making waves, like a bunch of seditious, lunatics will only put a hitch in the giddi-up of a leader who's trying his best to do the right thing for his fabulusly rich cronies and family.
Which brings me to why I never vote.
It only ecourages them.
Thomas, I know I've kinda gone off on a tangent here, but SHIT people piss me off!
Sorry kiddo,
E-dog

Oh, whatever happened to the sixties and seventies and the protests???? We were a people then; strong and determined. We marched; we spoke up even in silence. A war ended. Someone who cares in the White House? That would be a relief.

Carole

Carole

[E-DOG]

Someone who cares in the White House? That would be a relief.

Carole

Carole
[/quote]

A relief?
No Carole.
It would be a miracle.
E

[rmorgan]

Now...I recentely did a research paper on stem cell research...Did you know that they have found a way to do the same thing with embryonic stem cells but from the placenta and umbilical cord to repair spinal damage??

But they still voted against it...wasn't that the big deal in the first place...the killing of unborn children??

And now they've found a way to use the birth of children...what a win win situation if only we could get it approved. They are doing it in China right now...let's all hop on a flight together huh?

[topperf]

rmorgan, on May 28 2008, 05:27 AM, said:

Now...I recentely did a research paper on stem cell research...Did you know that they have found a way to do the same thing with embryonic stem cells but from the placenta and umbilical cord to repair spinal damage??

But they still voted against it...wasn't that the big deal in the first place...the killing of unborn children??

And now they've found a way to use the birth of children...what a win win situation if only we could get it approved. They are doing it in China right now...let's all hop on a flight together huh?

Yup, let's hop

[Hapahowlee]

rmorgan, on May 27 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Now...I recentely did a research paper on stem cell research...Did you know that they have found a way to do the same thing with embryonic stem cells but from the placenta and umbilical cord to repair spinal damage??

But they still voted against it...wasn't that the big deal in the first place...the killing of unborn children??

And now they've found a way to use the birth of children...what a win win situation if only we could get it approved. They are doing it in China right now...let's all hop on a flight together huh?

I hear ya sista! My husband and I have our grand daugther's blood cord stem cells in storage just 2 hours South of where we live. I talked at length with a supervisor at this storage facility who told me grandparents are further removed from the DNA than we originally thought. But, it's still a good idea to harvest these cells. The work being done to repair heart tissue is amazing. I spoke with a Ph.D. at a reseach facility (Thomas - I'm still looking for my info to post), but he and his M.D. collegue told me they have gotten mice to walk again after being paralyzed and they feel a cure is going to be found soon (within the next 10 years). We just need the scientists to be able to tests on humans. I know some have posted that they don't vote, but I do and I also write letters to not only my local legislators, but the Feds as well. Somebody has to hear our cry!!!!!! Stem cells will be able to cure so many diseases and think how much money will be saved in the long run on health care and supplies. Doesn't this make sense? Well guess that's why the current administration couldn't give a rat's ass about stem cell research! Also the religious views get in the way too. Whatever happened to separation of Church and State?

[rmorgan]

Yeah...I hear that too!! (about the seperation of church and state!) I hear people say all the time that it's going to far into "playing god" But we play God every day....

[topperf]

I'm not shure that I agree with you, a 100 percent, i mean, if you play god everyday, it's fine by me, as long as you limit your doings to your own life. (if you have powers that influence my life, we need to sit down and have a serious talk;)
Thats the problem with your commander and chief, his choices are affecting my life, and it really shouldn't be like that.
church and state was seperated a long time ago, (thank god) but he's mixing it back together again...

[Gecko]

Hi

Here's a bit of perspective for you guys and gals..

Here in Africa, most Africans die within the first 6 week of ANY SCI.

There is no care at all for such injuries. I was lucky to be air lifted out within 48 hours of my accident.

There are NO wheelchairs for those who servive, they end up crawling on the grownd most of the time, if not they have to share a chair...

I know its frustrating for us who pay taxes and expect our governments to help us, but there is so much we all take for granted.

[topperf]

Gecko, on May 29 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

Hi

Here's a bit of perspective for you guys and gals..

Here in Africa, most Africans die within the first 6 week of ANY SCI.

There is no care at all for such injuries. I was lucky to be air lifted out within 48 hours of my accident.

There are NO wheelchairs for those who servive, they end up crawling on the grownd most of the time, if not they have to share a chair...

I know its frustrating for us who pay taxes and expect our governments to help us, but there is so much we all take for granted.

oh perspective, always remember to put life in perspective.

So guy, while we're lifting ourselves from the ground to look at things in a larger scale, and you, putting africa on the table, why stop at SCI?
What about HIV? cancer? poverty? hunger? malaria? (oh, THAT's a biggie) war, etcetera, etcetera...

Could i please ask you not to put your halo 'round my neck, it's a wee bit tight (and small, btw)

Oh, and don't tell me what I take for granted.

Edited by topperf, 29 May 2008 - 02:50 PM.

[E-DOG]

topperf, on May 29 2008, 05:25 AM, said:

I'm not shure that I agree with you, a 100 percent, i mean, if you play god everyday, it's fine by me, as long as you limit your doings to your own life. (if you have powers that influence my life, we need to sit down and have a serious talk;)
Thats the problem with your commander and chief, his choices are affecting my life, and it really shouldn't be like that.
church and state was seperated a long time ago, (thank god) but he's mixing it back together again...

Hey you!
He's the frigging prezident and he can do ANYTHING HE WANTS!
Somehow a religious fundamentalist bible totin'oilwell ownin' warmonger wangdangled his way into becoming leader of what is concidered the worlds greatest superpower. Shit, I'd be a better pres. and I'm a moron.
How do you separate the men from the boys in hollywood? With a crow-bar! Same with church and state these days. The idea that some fool with way too much power can use the bible to make important decisions concerning the entire f*@king world is why I and others here choose to bury our heads in the sand.
Short of buying a remington model 700 with leupold scope and taking matters into my own hands,
I am an ex Marine after all, and we're the best shooters in the world, there ain't shit I can do.
I'm in my fifties, so any cure that comes along will be too late for me anyway.

My commader and chief.
Hell, I thought he was your commander and chief!

I see you're from Denmark. Is that where you are now?
Odd, you don't write with a Danish accent.
E-perro

"and don't tell me what I can take for granted"
man do I love it when you get angry!
take a deep breath, B+, B+. LOL

Edited by E-DOG, 29 May 2008 - 06:52 PM.

[rmorgan]

topperf, on May 29 2008, 07:25 AM, said:

I'm not shure that I agree with you, a 100 percent, i mean, if you play god everyday, it's fine by me, as long as you limit your doings to your own life. (if you have powers that influence my life, we need to sit down and have a serious talk;)
Thats the problem with your commander and chief, his choices are affecting my life, and it really shouldn't be like that.
church and state was seperated a long time ago, (thank god) but he's mixing it back together again...

The point in saying that we play god every day is true...

Stem cells are just another way in helping people... but people say it's playing god??

What about all the other things people do EVERY SINGLE DAY that help people...medicine, saving lives, etc, etc, etc, ETC ETC.....

And by saying THAT...the President is indeed what they call "playing god" because he is making decisions that could affect people's whole lives...

And I'm sure gecko wasn't telling you what to be grateful of...just saying in general...people do take lots of things for granted every day...including you (I'm sure) with anything, life in general.

So watch your attitude! Weren't you the one complaining just recently in a post about people's attitudes??? Don't be a hipocrite...

[topperf]

deeeeeeep breath......

rmorgan, i'll watch my attitude maam, my reply to your comment, wasn't surposed to offend at all, I was smiling when I wrote it and I thought it showed.

I'd love to disguss our takes on life in general, but could we do that elsewhere?
I mean, I raised the question "Fda" to grow wiser, not to be reminded that I'm lucky getting my SCI outside of the 3 world... (we can make a threat about that aswell, if needed)

inhale....... exhale......

now someone please remove that halo, it's destroying my breathing excercises

Yup dawg, i'm in denmark, danish alltheway.

Edited by topperf, 29 May 2008 - 08:07 PM.

[rmorgan]

topperf, on May 29 2008, 02:53 PM, said:

deeeeeeep breath......

rmorgan, i'll watch my attitude maam, my reply to your comment, wasn't surposed to offend at all, I was smiling when I wrote it and I thought it showed.

I'd love to disguss our takes on life in general, but could we do that elsewhere?
I mean, I raised the question "Fda" to grow wiser, not to be reminded that I'm lucky getting my SCI outside of the 3 world... (we can make a threat about that aswell, if needed)

inhale....... exhale......

now someone please remove that halo, it's destroying my breathing excercises

Yup dawg, i'm in denmark, danish alltheway.

I'm not angry
I understood what you were saying about the whole "playing god" scenario...but I just was talking about what you said to gecko about "don't tell me what I take for granted"

Which, I do indeed agree with you...I just hate when people start snapping at each other...it frustrates me!!

We are all here to help each other...and to learn from one another....

As far as the FDA goes...it sucks... but maybe one day it wont.... and maybe just maybe these other places that are allowed to do stem cell research they'll have a breakthrough that offers more guarantee that it'll work.... until then....let's all just get along eh??

[doublelibra]

Hi all-

I quit holdng my breath hoping for a cure years ago. The only way there will be one is if someone will get very rich off of it. That's not impossible; it would be nice. Stem cell research can be funded and conducted privately. Bush and his toadies just don't want it funded by taxpayers.

I would never volunteer to be in a medical experiment, however. I have studied enough experimental design, statistics and research to know that medical research is often poorly designed and conducted with a profit motive coloring data collection and interpretation of results. Look at recent recalls of ineffective and/or dangerous drugs, where the big pharma companies were in bed with researchers, and where research was flawed or results were manipulated, or even falsified. I would wait until preliminary research was conducted and any potential cure was tested, refined and well documented before I would attempt it myself. It WOULD be great, though, wouldn't it....?

doublelibra

[Hapahowlee]

Okay, since someone threw religion in the mix of these posts (oops, maybe it was me), I'd like to know something from all people who believe in God and/or go to church. My siblings and I were never forced to go to church and we didn't even have a bible in our home. My father's family was Baptist, but I think he was pretty much an atheist and my mom is a Buddhist, so if I have to put a label on myself, I'll just call myself Agnostic and not a huge fan of organized religion. So with that written, I'd like to get views from anyone, in particular SCI Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, etc. on stem cell research, especially embryonic stem cell research. S.O.s feel free to respond also. Even before I met my husband (C5,6,7), I felt very strongly, this type of research should go on in full force so cures for many diseases could be found sooner.

My reason for this little poll? I'm trying to understand the way people who belong to particular religious groups think or rationalize their views when it comes to stem cell research. My step daughter considers herself a devout Catholic, but she approves of all types of stem cell research mainly because of her father. Now to me, that is being hypocritical. I'm glad she approves of SC Res., but I use the word hypocritical b/c there are a lot of other things she doesn't follow when it comes to catholicism. Why even be catholic? If there is a God who created people, there are many very intelligent scientist that were created and could come up with a cure if given the resources.

Okay anyone who is a member of an organized religious group, Catholic, Mormon, Baptists, et. al. and are SCI or if you are an S.O., I'd appreciate knowing your views on Stem Cell Research. BTW, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks!

[E-DOG]

Hapahowlee, on May 29 2008, 03:29 PM, said:

Okay, since someone threw religion in the mix of these posts (oops, maybe it was me), I'd like to know something from all people who believe in God and/or go to church. My siblings and I were never forced to go to church and we didn't even have a bible in our home. My father's family was Baptist, but I think he was pretty much an atheist and my mom is a Buddhist, so if I have to put a label on myself, I'll just call myself Agnostic and not a huge fan of organized religion. So with that written, I'd like to get views from anyone, in particular SCI Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, etc. on stem cell research, especially embryonic stem cell research. S.O.s feel free to respond also. Even before I met my husband (C5,6,7), I felt very strongly, this type of research should go on in full force so cures for many diseases could be found sooner.

My reason for this little poll? I'm trying to understand the way people who belong to particular religious groups think or rationalize their views when it comes to stem cell research. My step daughter considers herself a devout Catholic, but she approves of all types of stem cell research mainly because of her father. Now to me, that is being hypocritical. I'm glad she approves of SC Res., but I use the word hypocritical b/c there are a lot of other things she doesn't follow when it comes to catholicism. Why even be catholic? If there is a God who created people, there are many very intelligent scientist that were created and could come up with a cure if given the resources.

Okay anyone who is a member of an organized religious group, Catholic, Mormon, Baptists, et. al. and are SCI or if you are an S.O., I'd appreciate knowing your views on Stem Cell Research. BTW, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm just trying to understand. Thanks!

Hap'
First, what is an S.O.?
Next, I'm an atheist but love to talk about organised religion. I find it so, spiritualy uplifting.
Never met a catholic that wasn't a hypocrite. Church on Sunday, hit the bar on the way home, get liquored up, hit and run some poor child on the way home, then when ya get there ya beat the living shit outa yer wife and run upstairs and fondle the kiddies. Guess that's what jesus would do.
Sorry all you theists, but someone who really walks the walk is hard to find these days. I know there are lots of the spiritualy inclined out there, and bless yer peapickin' little hearts, I love each and every one of ya. I recon curing SCI"s must take a back seat to bible dogma. After all there ain't a whole lot of us so where's the profit?
Maybe some karma will run over Bushes dogma.
Hapahowlee sounds Amreican Native crossed with Hawiiian. Am I all wet on this one?

If god is willing to cure us, but can't, he is not omnipotent.
If god is able to, but won't, he is malevolent.
If he is able and willing, why are we still in chairs?
If he is unable and unwilling, why call him god?
Just wondering.
what came first, god or the universe. the chicken, silly.
Why did George Bush cross the road?
Couldn't get his pecker out of the chicken.
True story, no, really!
E-dog
Jesus saves, he passes to Jordan, Jordan shoots and it's in. 2 points for the religious right.

[Hapahowlee]

E-DOG, on May 29 2008, 05:27 PM, said:

Hap'
First, what is an S.O.?
Next, I'm an atheist but love to talk about organised religion. I find it so, spiritualy uplifting.
Never met a catholic that wasn't a hypocrite. Church on Sunday, hit the bar on the way home, get liquored up, hit and run some poor child on the way home, then when ya get there ya beat the living shit outa yer wife and run upstairs and fondle the kiddies. Guess that's what jesus would do.
Sorry all you theists, but someone who really walks the walk is hard to find these days. I know there are lots of the spiritualy inclined out there, and bless yer peapickin' little hearts, I love each and every one of ya. I recon curing SCI"s must take a back seat to bible dogma. After all there ain't a whole lot of us so where's the profit?
Maybe some karma will run over Bushes dogma.
Hapahowlee sounds Amreican Native crossed with Hawiiian. Am I all wet on this one?

If god is willing to cure us, but can't, he is not omnipotent.
If god is able to, but won't, he is malevolent.
If he is able and willing, why are we still in chairs?
If he is unable and unwilling, why call him god?
Just wondering.
what came first, god or the universe. the chicken, silly.
Why did George Bush cross the road?
Couldn't get his pecker out of the chicken.
True story, no, really!
E-dog
Jesus saves, he passes to Jordan, Jordan shoots and it's in. 2 points for the religious right.

E-dog, you are a hoot! Read ya loud and clear. First off S.O. is Significant Other. Sorry, should have made that clear in my post. It's just easier to put SO because I was looking for opinions from not just spouses, but partners, et al.

Yeah, I love to talk about organized religion too, except most people I talk to get offended. Hmmm, I think it's because I call them out on so much shit. I live in AZ and used to get Mormons coming to my door until I finally answered with an upside down cross on my chest and a slight trickle of fake blood running down the side of my mouth. Haven't had a Mormon come to my door in years. Now I have the Jehovah's Witnesses to scare off. It's actually my hubby's fault. They came to the door one day as I was sitting in my home office next to the foyer. Hubby is a non practicing Methodist. He just kept chatting away just for shits as I laughed my ass off in my office. Well of course they came back 2 weeks later. Even though I have much experience in screwing with religious fanatics who insists on interrupting my day with their bull shit, I wasn't in the mood and when they asked for my husband, I just flat out told them, "He was just f*@kin' with you, I don't come to your house and preach my shit, so don't come back . . . ever." It's been a couple of months. Guess they got the message.

Hapahowlee is a half & halfer. When my husband and I got married in Hawaii, the guy who married us could tell I wasn't all white and he was correct. I'm half Asian and Hapahowlee is and Island term for someone who is half foreigner. Really wild cause I do get mistaken for American Indian and at times hispanic. I should have been an actress. I could have been one of those chicks who could play and Italian, Asian, Hispanic, Greek, etc. Also American Indian. Since I live in Apache & Navajo country I was corrected by an elder Indian woman who told me anyone born in the U.S. is a Native American. She had me on that one. Sometimes I really don't get why we have to keep changing names of ethnic groups. I'm half Jap., I heard recently that AZ is revising the State constitution to take out he name "Oriental" and change it to Asian. I had no idea Oriental was considered derogatory. Same with African American. I just flat out asked some "brotha" friends of mine, what's up with that and they told me they are black, they don't like to refer to themselves as African American and they don't get where that came from. My husband told me he was going to start calling himself European American. Better get off this tangent.

Would love to see Bush's response to you writing maybe some karma will run over his dogma. He'd probably run in the house and put "Barney" in a safe place thinking someone put a hex on his DOG! He's such an ass! BTW are you sure you aren't thinking of Larry Flynt and the chicken?

Take care E DOG!

[carole338]

Jesus saves, he passes to Jordan, Jordan shoots and it's in. 2 points for the religious right.
[/quote]

3 points, it was outside.

[Quad65]

First, a request to all responders to all posts: Please don't copy an entire response in your response. If there is a relevant point or sentence, fine. We can figure out the point being discussed and it's really not necessary to have a half dozen entire posts copied and included at the head of a one sentence comment. A waste of space and very distracting.

Second, while I have my own personal beliefs and philosophy, I wouldn't dream of inflicting or imposing them on anyone else. Governments should be completely secular. The Constitution supposedly protects not only the freedom OF religion, but the freedom FROM religion. Politicians of any stripe have no right to use religious dogma to frame or influence governmental policy or law.

Personally, if there is a medical practice or treatment that conflicts with my beliefs, I will not use it regardless of the cost to me. On the other hand, I would not prevent or impede anyone else from availing themselves of it, if they chose to do so.

I'm a firm believer in personal accountability, whether to secular or spiritual authority. Do what you want, but be accountable. As TV tool Dr. Phil says, "You choose the action, you choose the consequences."

'Dog, again, you are friggin' hilarious. You make some good points, Bro.

Edited by Quad65, 30 May 2008 - 03:28 PM.

[gcampbell]

E-DOG, on May 30 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

Hap'
First, what is an S.O.?
Next, I'm an atheist but love to talk about organised religion. I find it so, spiritualy uplifting.
Never met a catholic that wasn't a hypocrite. Church on Sunday, hit the bar on the way home, get liquored up, hit and run some poor child on the way home, then when ya get there ya beat the living shit outa yer wife and run upstairs and fondle the kiddies. Guess that's what jesus would do.
Sorry all you theists, but someone who really walks the walk is hard to find these days. I know there are lots of the spiritualy inclined out there, and bless yer peapickin' little hearts, I love each and every one of ya. I recon curing SCI"s must take a back seat to bible dogma. After all there ain't a whole lot of us so where's the profit?
Maybe some karma will run over Bushes dogma.
Hapahowlee sounds Amreican Native crossed with Hawiiian. Am I all wet on this one?

If god is willing to cure us, but can't, he is not omnipotent.
If god is able to, but won't, he is malevolent.
If he is able and willing, why are we still in chairs?
If he is unable and unwilling, why call him god?
Just wondering.
what came first, god or the universe. the chicken, silly.
Why did George Bush cross the road?
Couldn't get his pecker out of the chicken.
True story, no, really!
E-dog
Jesus saves, he passes to Jordan, Jordan shoots and it's in. 2 points for the religious right.

First, but he probably knew this was coming. I take offense to your rude and insulting statement "Never met a catholic that wasn't a hypocrite." This dialog is supposed to be informative not degrading. I am a catholic. Do I sometimes challenge some of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Yes I do but that does not make me a hypocrite. We all have vices and I am sure you have some of your own. Do I believe in stem cell research? Yes I do but I want it done responsibly. Does that make me a hypocrite? Do I believe in abortion? Only under certain circumstances. Does that make me a hypocrite? Regarding your questions about God's intent? Every religion has its own teachings and answers to those questions. If you are an agnostic or an atheist, my belief is that God gave you the "free will" to believe that way but do not condemn everyone else because they believe differently. With regards to politics, believe it or not, I am a catholic but I believe that George Bush is probably one of the worst presidents this country has ever had and do regret voting for him. I am going to think much more carefully with the upcoming election. So, with that said, I want to simply reiterate that we all have different beliefs and opinions that do not necessarily make must bad individuals with SCI's. I'm sorry I got off tangent here but your comment really annoyed me.

[Hapahowlee]

"First, a request to all responders to all posts: Please don't copy an entire response in your response. "

Quad 65 you are absolutely right. Mine is done unintentionally/accidentally, but I know what you mean. It makes scrolling a chore and puts too much more blah,blah in the mix. Thanks for reminding everyone of this. Also, thanks for your diplomatic response.

I am just curious if anyone would let their religious teachings keep them from even testing a cure if the treatment was created in a way that is considered immoral by their religion. The only wrong answer in my book is if people or groups of people try to keep important research from going forward just because they feel the testing is considered unethical. Seems as though it takes an illness in the family to change minds. Celebrity status helps a great deal. Sad that Christopher Reeve isn’t with us anymore and not able to voice his opinion(s) to Congress, but we still have Michael J. Fox who is very active in advocating Stem Cell Research, which will help in curing a vast array of diseases. As far as a cure for SCI, maybe there won’t be a complete cure for all people. I know my husband would be happy to be able to use a walker or cane even just for part of the day.

[E-DOG]

gcampbell, on May 30 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

First, but he probably knew this was coming. I take offense to your rude and insulting statement "Never met a catholic that wasn't a hypocrite. Regarding your questions about God's intent? Every religion has its own teachings and answers to those questions. I'm sorry I got off tangent here but your comment really annoyed me.

Sir,
If I annoyed you, I apologize.
Please don't be insulted though, as I was only talking about the Catholics I have met over the years.
Not you.
Also, if you look closely at what I said, you'll see I wasn't making any judgements, only observations.
And lastly sir, as far as teachings and answers to the questions above, out of plain curiosity, do you have any answers?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Just interested in your take on the matter.
Again, sorry for any slight i may have commited. It's just that due to circumstances, I'm living with a woman who's been trying to force me to become a christian for over 6 months now and I've decided to retaliate by going from agnostic to atheist.
E

[Gecko]

topperf, on May 29 2008, 02:49 PM, said:

oh perspective, always remember to put life in perspective.

So guy, while we're lifting ourselves from the ground to look at things in a larger scale, and you, putting africa on the table, why stop at SCI?
What about HIV? cancer? poverty? hunger? malaria? (oh, THAT's a biggie) war, etcetera, etcetera...

Could i please ask you not to put your halo 'round my neck, it's a wee bit tight (and small, btw)

Oh, and don't tell me what I take for granted.

Hi there, i'm not sure I follow you about the halo issue, maybe I'm stupid or something.

Seems I pissed you off somehow... sorry for that. I was under the impression this was an international forum for all of us to put our point of view forward for debate...

I did not mean to offend you.

Or maybe it's because I'm not an American?

Peace

[topperf]

"Personally, if there is a medical practice or treatment that conflicts with my beliefs, I will not use it regardless of the cost to me. On the other hand, I would not prevent or impede anyone else from availing themselves of it, if they chose to do so."

I'd like to hang this on a huge banner in front of the entrance to a specific crawford ranch.

its like my mother, she's against abortion, (can't say that I always agree with her, theese days:) but only on a personal basis.
I was brought up to believe that people should have the right to decide for themselves, but I simply can't understand what is going on in peoples heads when they wave a book and dictate rules in my life.
I'll fight for theese peoples right to believe in anything they like, anyday.
but I must admit that I expect the same "space" from them.
Which, I'm afraid, is a wee bit naive.

Edited by topperf, 31 May 2008 - 06:51 PM.