[tmcph]

airart1, on Mar 28 2009, 10:43 AM, said:

i'll still stand by my answer, anybody thats better off without body function that is better off must have had one messed up life, i never let mine get ourt of control, aqnd enjoyed every minute i was walking and doing thinjgs the normal way, the way God meant it to be, life in a wheelchair sucks, no if and or butts..............

i think you're misunderstanding the question

[airart1]

how do u figure i dont understand the question, simple yes or no, how can a person with out function, no matter what that is could be better off.......if u can explain that to me then i can accept it, but until i can be convinced that all the things i did or could do is better i stand where i stand, there is no way that anyone is better off without there bodily functions as a normal human being and not strapped to a chair could be better off.............

[kate42]

This is an interesting question, and for me it's kind of like trying to compare apples and oranges. My life before was so different than my life now, but that could also be because I was going through a natural stage in maturing when my SCI happened (I was twelve).

Apart from the obvious inconveniences, there are still some things that piss me off. It's frustrating being sixteen years old and being the only one who can't participate in sports at school or go to camp or do a lot of "normal kid stuff." But I am entirely happy with who I am, I'm happy with my life now, and I think it's given me an entirely new outlook on life. I've also found ways to start doing things that I used to before my SCI that I didn't think I could - I've been able to start doing drama at school again, that kind of thing.

So to answer the question, yes, overall, I think my life is better now.

[airart1]

wow is all i can say, if in a chair is better than being normal then i guess life must have really sucked..........................

[tmcph]

airart1, on Mar 28 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

how do u figure i dont understand the question, simple yes or no, how can a person with out function, no matter what that is could be better off.......if u can explain that to me then i can accept it, but until i can be convinced that all the things i did or could do is better i stand where i stand, there is no way that anyone is better off without there bodily functions as a normal human being and not strapped to a chair could be better off.............

he put 'Looking past your condition (if you can, I know it is hard) and the health consequences of your injuries. Do you consider your life to be better or worse post injury with regard to the new person you have become inside.' so that reads to me, imagine yourself without a chair, are you a better person inside now than you were, however long ago it might be. maybe you can't picture yourself without the chair, i can & i am a better person inside because of my injury.

if you have more input i would like to hear it, but message me so we don't hijack the thread

[airart1]

i havent hijacked this thread , its simple, how can any one person with loss of bodily function, little lone the ability to live life as most take for granted be better off, as i have said before you have the power to change your life, even in a chair, and my answer is the same, no way is my life better without half of my body working..............i havent stopped living if thats what u mean, i owned 3 retail stores and worked 14 hour days, it did get me some amminities like owning my home and boats, cars, i even built me a harley, in which i owned 2 before my accident, i accomplished a few of the things i still could do, which is about 10 times more than most i know in wheelchairs, most live in poverty and have not what i would consider a full life, i've lost my wife, my son and many of my friends, so u ask me am i better off, and the answer will still be NO...........if u feel like your life was so bad that u consider having someone to clean, work on your home, theres about 1000 things i cant do that was on my slate to do that is not accomplishable in a wheelchair, so when u say your life is better, i'm proud yours is, mine is not, there are about 999 things on my list that i will never get to do, heck, the most in chairs cant even get a job, because they cant afford the price of there medical, when i closed the last store, i was paying almost 2000 a month for medical ins. for me and my son, i was hospitalized for ulcers on my butt that has turned into about 4 years in bed and 6 surgeries, i have old motorcycles that i've owned by my hard work with legs sitting in garages that i will never ride again, so if your life is better then God bless you, but mine is not, not that i will give up on life and will live it the best i can, but better off, is still no way in heck...........

[qbounce]

airart1, on Mar 27 2009, 08:58 PM, said:

but getting a new girlfriend and job still been better!!!

Without going into a deep and drawn out discussion, uuummmmm . . . . yah.

I read the rest of your rant, and understand where you're at in life.

My head isn't there. It's a little further up in the clouds. I'm at peace with what happened to me and I've moved past it.

Have you seen the 3 wheeled trikes out there? Pretty sweet!!

[airart1]

there is no looking past your condition, no way, cant be done, reality is reality...............and if u live in some sort of fantasy world were u can then i'm proud for u...................

[jaquie_farmer]

there are things about me on the inside both positive and negative resulting from the accident. overall id say im very happy w/ myself inside. no use dwelling on the physical aspect of life; there's so much to be thankful for. take a breath in and out. then say thanks.

This post has been edited by jaquie_farmer: 29 March 2009 - 07:30 PM

[qbounce]

airart1, on Mar 29 2009, 12:22 PM, said:

there is no looking past your condition, no way, cant be done, reality is reality...............and if u live in some sort of fantasy world were u can then i'm proud for u...................

I'm not going to argue anymore my position. It's a mental thing, not a physical one. The realitiy is where your heads at, not just your physical being.

So you can either get busy living or get busy dying . . . your choice.

[nomis]

It's an impossible questions - is your life better or worse. I only have what I am at this moment which is one thing, not two to choose from. Many years ago I was fully engrossed in life as an able bodied young man which was great. Now I'm older, hopefully wiser, less driven but comfortably appreciative of so much and life is great. Given a magical choice, I don't think the issue now is so much as to whether I am SCI or AB, I'd rather be young again so I can do itall again.

[fatdave]

Quote

It's an impossible questions - is your life better or worse.

Well said, Nomis.


I am learning to deal with the issues. I thought I was happy before all this, but the more I think about it I realize how shitty it was.

[tmcph]

airart1, on Mar 28 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

how do u figure i dont understand the question, simple yes or no, how can a person with out function, no matter what that is could be better off.......if u can explain that to me then i can accept it, but until i can be convinced that all the things i did or could do is better i stand where i stand, there is no way that anyone is better off without there bodily functions as a normal human being and not strapped to a chair could be better off.............

i'm not trying to convince you of that, nor will i. i just stated that you misunderstood the question

again, he wasn't asking if your life is better or worse physically, of course life is harder/difficult/even shitty sometimes with a disability like ours, i'm 6'3" & 5'7" of my body doesn't work under my control, that's equal to the average height of a male, but the question and i quote '...with regard to the new person you have become inside.', i don't see anywhere in the question asking you if your life is better now that your body isn't functioning

that doesn't make my view right, but for you to tell people that they must have had 'messed up' or lives that 'sucked' isn't

qbounce, on Mar 29 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

So you can either get busy living or get busy dying . . . your choice.

well put!

[airart1]

well i think its well put whether u like it or not, i'm not here to hurt any feeling if we are to sensitive to realize the facts then so be it, i wouldnt want to hurt your feelings.....but unless u were homeless junkie or been abused or something extreem then i could see it.......but not being able to take a crap or a piss nor get a piece of ass, or climb a hill or mow my yard or plant a tree, or drive any vehicle i want or walk up a flight of stairs, should i go on, if your a quad u even have it worse, u need help for almost everything..............so take it as you will, i will not respond any further on the subject.................if your life is so great then i'm proud for u, just like i said before, end of subject as far as i'm concerned with it, yall debate how much better yalls life is........

[jaquie_farmer]

airart1, on Mar 31 2009, 11:24 AM, said:

well i think its well put whether u like it or not, i'm not here to hurt any feeling if we are to sensitive to realize the facts then so be it, i wouldnt want to hurt your feelings.....but unless u were homeless junkie or been abused or something extreem then i could see it.......but not being able to take a crap or a piss nor get a piece of ass, or climb a hill or mow my yard or plant a tree, or drive any vehicle i want or walk up a flight of stairs, should i go on, if your a quad u even have it worse, u need help for almost everything..............so take it as you will, i will not respond any further on the subject.................if your life is so great then i'm proud for u, just like i said before, end of subject as far as i'm concerned with it, yall debate how much better yalls life is........

i think we all can agree that physically this way of life sucks ass. but i think everyone of us can agree that mentally we are much stronger people than before and we all can appreciate what we DO have. there's no sense in being "oh my life sucks" because that's not going to get your piss, shit or legs back.

[Hikkakaru]

Everyone complains about what a silly question this is, but then if you look at the poll results obviously it's a varied enough response.

As for me, I hate my life and where I am at with it. I'm no longer able to race competitively at a professional level after being told most of my life that I was a prodigy who did nothing but excel at it, which is a totally immeasurable loss for me. College is fifty times harder and the rewards are no longer mentally worth it for me to pursue my long term goals with zeal. I find it near impossible to do anything with the least bit of spontaneity, after living a totally care-free and spontaneous life able-bodied. I pressure my friends too much to the point where they might as well be paid workers instead of friends for the amount of extra work I put them through, which is tough. And I am no longer independent completely, which is tough as I had been totally independent my entire life, even financially from 15 on. Everyone is always worried about me should I decide I want to do something alone to the point where they are calling me relentlessly and bothering me, forcing me to limit those situations in order to limit my exposure with everyone else. And on top of all that, my injury was due to being a victim of a violent crime, a hit and run, after just walking home from getting pizza. If I broke my neck or back in a car or racing it'd be much easier for me to come to terms with in my opinion, but since it was something so trivial and avoidable it still to this day bothers me incessantly. Especially since no justice was had and no criminal apprehended.

I'll stop whining now and step off my soap box ;).

-Sam

[Trinity]

Hikkakaru, on Apr 1 2009, 04:16 PM, said:

Everyone complains about what a silly question this is, but then if you look at the poll results obviously it's a varied enough response.

As for me, I hate my life and where I am at with it. I'm no longer able to race competitively at a professional level after being told most of my life that I was a prodigy who did nothing but excel at it, which is a totally immeasurable loss for me. College is fifty times harder and the rewards are no longer mentally worth it for me to pursue my long term goals with zeal. I find it near impossible to do anything with the least bit of spontaneity, after living a totally care-free and spontaneous life able-bodied. I pressure my friends too much to the point where they might as well be paid workers instead of friends for the amount of extra work I put them through, which is tough. And I am no longer independent completely, which is tough as I had been totally independent my entire life, even financially from 15 on. Everyone is always worried about me should I decide I want to do something alone to the point where they are calling me relentlessly and bothering me, forcing me to limit those situations in order to limit my exposure with everyone else. And on top of all that, my injury was due to being a victim of a violent crime, a hit and run, after just walking home from getting pizza. If I broke my neck or back in a car or racing it'd be much easier for me to come to terms with in my opinion, but since it was something so trivial and avoidable it still to this day bothers me incessantly. Especially since no justice was had and no criminal apprehended.

I'll stop whining now and step off my soap box ;).

-Sam

I pretty much agree with everything Sam says. What I do wonder about however is does it make much difference how you were injured, does being injured doing something you love, or in a way where the blame can be firmly attributed to a person make such a difference and does it make it easier to come to terms with your situation?

[tmcph]

trinity, on Apr 1 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

I pretty much agree with everything Sam says. What I do wonder about however is does it make much difference how you were injured, does being injured doing something you love, or in a way where the blame can be firmly attributed to a person make such a difference and does it make it easier to come to terms with your situation?

i think it has a lot to do with how you were hurt, i know it's a lot easier for me to deal with my injury since i can blame myself 100% for it.

i would hope that i could deal with an injury the same way if the blame was on someone else, but i think i would probably have some anger issues, especially if it was a drunk driver or something like that

[Unbreakable]

tmcph, on Apr 2 2009, 03:51 PM, said:

trinity, on Apr 1 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

I pretty much agree with everything Sam says. What I do wonder about however is does it make much difference how you were injured, does being injured doing something you love, or in a way where the blame can be firmly attributed to a person make such a difference and does it make it easier to come to terms with your situation?

i think it has a lot to do with how you were hurt, i know it's a lot easier for me to deal with my injury since i can blame myself 100% for it.

i would hope that i could deal with an injury the same way if the blame was on someone else, but i think i would probably have some anger issues, especially if it was a drunk driver or something like that

If one's level of happiness still revolves around one's mode/method of injury, then the real issue is emotional maturity and living in the past, I'd venture to say.

You can spend YEARS thinking about how you got hurt, and whose fault it was, and why it happened, etc. But that's not going to change anything. All it will do will drive you crazy.

I find it more productive and happier to focus and the present and future. In other words, the aspects of life I can control.

[jaquie_farmer]

Ok jax, not EVERYONE changes after there accident but I think most do undergo some kind of change. Wether it be you're stronger in your faith, you appreciate the little things more, you become shy, etc.. The original question obviously doesn't apply to everyone so if it doesn't to you then ok.

[Slowlegs]

Hi guys the original question was:

Looking past the injury (if you can, I know it is hard) and the health consequences of your injuries. Do you consider your life to be better or worse post injury with regard to the new person you have become inside.

At the time, this topic seemed a good idea. A lot of people on here claim to get joy from new things, riding quad bikes, car racing, family, relationships, etc. Sometimes they do new things and sometimes they even carry on the hobby or sport that got them injured in the first place. Sometimes reading the posts I wonder if there is something wrong with me - should I be better adjusted, am I successful enough in relation to other people - do I enjoy my life as much as I could? If I worked on myself could I indeed be happier in my relationships? Previously, getting married, having children and owning my own home was very important to me. That has all changed but it doesn't mean I don't still desire those things. I think overall I still enjoy my life despite all the "bummers" that are now in it and the alternative paths I have taken.

Despite their injuries, from their posts on the site, others seem to profess to be living great lives. What I was trying to ascertain was if people were generally happier after their injuries or before - despite their injuries. Are the majority of us happier or unhappier with where our lives have ended up? Obviously the physical parts do suck sometimes but by attempting to take that out of the mix I was trying to ascertain a general level of overall happiness. Some can't separate the physical from the spiritual bit - we are all different and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can't do that though, still feel free to post your comments. Nobody should be denigrated for how they are seen to be coping or not coping though - that is the way they cope and live their lives. Surely living a life in whatever shape, form or outlook is no contest to not living one at all?. Some would disagree I suspect.

You know, sometimes I cringe when I see someone else has replied to this topic - I'd like to take it down and replace or change it but I can't. Not because of the answers, I value all of them but perhaps because I made such a bad job of the original question.

As for the votes, yes for better, no for worse.

[Jax]

Slowlegs, on Apr 4 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Hi guys the original question was:

Looking past the injury (if you can, I know it is hard) and the health consequences of your injuries. Do you consider your life to be better or worse post injury with regard to the new person you have become inside.

At the time, this topic seemed a good idea. A lot of people on here claim to get joy from new things, riding quad bikes, car racing, family, relationships, etc. Sometimes they do new things and sometimes they even carry on the hobby or sport that got them injured in the first place. Sometimes reading the posts I wonder if there is something wrong with me - should I be better adjusted, am I successful enough in relation to other people - do I enjoy my life as much as I could? If I worked on myself could I indeed be happier in my relationships? Previously, getting married, having children and owning my own home was very important to me. That has all changed but it doesn't mean I don't still desire those things. I think overall I still enjoy my life despite all the "bummers" that are now in it and the alternative paths I have taken.

Despite their injuries, from their posts on the site, others seem to profess to be living great lives. What I was trying to ascertain was if people were generally happier after their injuries or before - despite their injuries. Are the majority of us happier or unhappier with where our lives have ended up? Obviously the physical parts do suck sometimes but by attempting to take that out of the mix I was trying to ascertain a general level of overall happiness. Some can't separate the physical from the spiritual bit - we are all different and there is nothing wrong with that. If you can't do that though, still feel free to post your comments. Nobody should be denigrated for how they are seen to be coping or not coping though - that is the way they cope and live their lives. Surely living a life in whatever shape, form or outlook is no contest to not living one at all?. Some would disagree I suspect.

You know, sometimes I cringe when I see someone else has replied to this topic - I'd like to take it down and replace or change it but I can't. Not because of the answers, I value all of them but perhaps because I made such a bad job of the original question.

As for the votes, yes for better, no for worse.

Thanks Slowlegs. I appreciate the clarification. You seem to have a way of getting me to think about some things that I probably wouldn't even have thought of at all otherwise. I vote that life is whatever you make it.

[Apparelyzed]

This thread has been moderated to keep it on topic.

If members have personal issues with one another, please use the PM system to discuss them in private, rather than take a thread off topic.

Regards

Simon

[Tim13]

Excellent question Slowlegs! Every time I lurk through here I read it and end up spending the next hour or so trying to figure an answer out. Awfully hard to seperate the nightmare of a spinal cord injury from the equation but I guess because of my age and the fact that my life was stagnant and I was ready for a change when the accident occurred coupled with the opportunities that would never have opened up otherwise. I'm pretty sure it made me a better-or more mature anyway, person.

...next time i read it, my answer will probably change.

[Yong]

can't say it's BETTER per se..but can't say it's worse.

I find myself having time to do things I've never found time to do pre-injury (like messing around with cars).

I think my injury has weeded out all my 'bad' friends and only those who really are good friends are near me now.

I still hope a cure comes along...but for now...I'm happy.

[Rjeez]

Better,up to now.At least I am off the drugs now.

[Hikkakaru]

Unbreakable, on Apr 3 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

tmcph, on Apr 2 2009, 03:51 PM, said:

trinity, on Apr 1 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

I pretty much agree with everything Sam says. What I do wonder about however is does it make much difference how you were injured, does being injured doing something you love, or in a way where the blame can be firmly attributed to a person make such a difference and does it make it easier to come to terms with your situation?

i think it has a lot to do with how you were hurt, i know it's a lot easier for me to deal with my injury since i can blame myself 100% for it.

i would hope that i could deal with an injury the same way if the blame was on someone else, but i think i would probably have some anger issues, especially if it was a drunk driver or something like that

If one's level of happiness still revolves around one's mode/method of injury, then the real issue is emotional maturity and living in the past, I'd venture to say.

You can spend YEARS thinking about how you got hurt, and whose fault it was, and why it happened, etc. But that's not going to change anything. All it will do will drive you crazy.

I find it more productive and happier to focus and the present and future. In other words, the aspects of life I can control.

I think it has a lot to do with how the injury happend. Imagine the anger generated over say being shot resulting in an SCI and the person being caught and let go with insufficient evidence, over say a motorcycle accident that was produced from an honest mistake the person made. Also consider someone whom had a very very high standard of living, got injured, and then lived in a convalescent home with little to no earthly belongings or assets. Imagine the psychological strain compared to someone whom had a low standard of living to begin with.

Also, think about the injury and the support rehab gives each injury based on statistical recovery. Whilst a complete injury is usually told that their recovery will be minimal and plateau quickly (usually) based on time and ability an incomplete is told to never expect to stop seeing return and that a good recovery is possible. This opens a whole new problem as it does not allow the incomplete injury to psychologically deal with it and find closure as easily as the complete. This problem, coupled with all of the expected medical advancements regarding UMD's makes closure a very hard thing to find, now-a-days.

The human mind isn't wired for straight efficiency. The most efficient thing is to disregard your past and live as productively as you can in the present and future, but that's not how we work. I think something as tragic and life-altering as an SCI affecting someone psychologically has little correlation with emotional maturity. The truth is that no one knows what makes some people cope with it so well and some not.

This post has been edited by Hikkakaru: 10 April 2009 - 07:07 PM

[gsp23]

I agree with the above post to an extent... I believe that dealing or not dealing doesnt have anything to do with an emotional maturity. However, I think it just has to do with how a person is wired, not about past/present standard of living.

For example person1 has a very very active life and is now a T4 - person2 did not have an active life but is now a T2. This doesnt mean that person2 should be able to deal with it better, its just the way it is an how peoples internals deal.

Another example with regards to complete vs incomplete....
The complete basically is told that their return will be minimal and that is a lot to deal with yes but...
the incomplete who is told to keep trying and can expect returns long term also has a lot to deal with such as in my case they didnt want to get a wheelchair for me for a few months afterward letting me deal with a rental chair for 3 months first and me finally pushing for something. My response from PT (and others) was that I shouldnt be giving up and settling on a chair was in that direction. My response was that I am still trying but I need to get by until my function returns as they expected complete return in less than a year... here I am 3 yrs later still using the chair. I am not saying its harder for an incomplete by any means, I am saying that both sides have their pros/cons its just a matter of how a person deals and nobody knows work, who can deal vs who cant.... just the way it is.

You could have a quad who was shot over something stupid (ProfessorX for example) who is dealing well with the situation. And you can have an incomplete para, I personally know an incomplete T12 who is in a deep depression comming up on 3 yrs post who was injured in an accident.

Maturity level, level of injury, its all just a mixture of information that brain needs to process and deal with... some just wired to deal better than others. Out of persons control and no fault of a persons who has trouble dealing, unfortunate, but I wouldnt criticize them for not dealing.

This post has been edited by gsp23: 10 April 2009 - 07:33 PM

[Unbreakable]

Quote

I think it has a lot to do with how the injury happend. Imagine the anger generated over say being shot resulting in an SCI and the person being caught and let go with insufficient evidence, over say a motorcycle accident that was produced from an honest mistake the person made. Also consider someone whom had a very very high standard of living, got injured, and then lived in a convalescent home with little to no earthly belongings or assets. Imagine the psychological strain compared to someone whom had a low standard of living to begin with.

Also, think about the injury and the support rehab gives each injury based on statistical recovery. Whilst a complete injury is usually told that their recovery will be minimal and plateau quickly (usually) based on time and ability an incomplete is told to never expect to stop seeing return and that a good recovery is possible. This opens a whole new problem as it does not allow the incomplete injury to psychologically deal with it and find closure as easily as the complete. This problem, coupled with all of the expected medical advancements regarding UMD's makes closure a very hard thing to find, now-a-days.

The human mind isn't wired for straight efficiency. The most efficient thing is to disregard your past and live as productively as you can in the present and future, but that's not how we work. I think something as tragic and life-altering as an SCI affecting someone psychologically has little correlation with emotional maturity. The truth is that no one knows what makes some people cope with it so well and some not.

Quote

I agree with the above post to an extent... I believe that dealing or not dealing doesnt have anything to do with an emotional maturity. However, I think it just has to do with how a person is wired, not about past/present standard of living.

For example person1 has a very very active life and is now a T4 - person2 did not have an active life but is now a T2. This doesnt mean that person2 should be able to deal with it better, its just the way it is an how peoples internals deal.

Another example with regards to complete vs incomplete....
The complete basically is told that their return will be minimal and that is a lot to deal with yes but...
the incomplete who is told to keep trying and can expect returns long term also has a lot to deal with such as in my case they didnt want to get a wheelchair for me for a few months afterward letting me deal with a rental chair for 3 months first and me finally pushing for something. My response from PT (and others) was that I shouldnt be giving up and settling on a chair was in that direction. My response was that I am still trying but I need to get by until my function returns as they expected complete return in less than a year... here I am 3 yrs later still using the chair. I am not saying its harder for an incomplete by any means, I am saying that both sides have their pros/cons its just a matter of how a person deals and nobody knows work, who can deal vs who cant.... just the way it is.

You could have a quad who was shot over something stupid (ProfessorX for example) who is dealing well with the situation. And you can have an incomplete para, I personally know an incomplete T12 who is in a deep depression comming up on 3 yrs post who was injured in an accident.

Maturity level, level of injury, its all just a mixture of information that brain needs to process and deal with... some just wired to deal better than others. Out of persons control and no fault of a persons who has trouble dealing, unfortunate, but I wouldnt criticize them for not dealing.

All the above stuff sounds great, but in the end it's just Monday morning Quarterbacking. I tried all that "what-if, deep rationalization bullshit" about my injury at first while I was in rehab. I would ramble on about it while in my PT and OT sessions.

And you know what? The therapists would nod their heads, tell me to shut up and pick up the weights and get back to work or concentrate on my transfers, or whatever it was I was supposed to be doing. They'd heard all this before from a hunderd other patients.

In other words, I could dream about the past all day, but that wasn't going to do a DAMN thing to help my current situation, now was it?

It's one thing to go over the "what-ifs", right after one is injured, but if a person is obsessing about it day in and day out, years down the road (Rosebud.....) that's not healthy or productive. You've got to move on at some point or you'll be stuck in the past forever.

[qbounce]

I think its got alot to do with how you've always dealt with situations. Do you have a hard time dealing with switching gears on something, or do you easily role with it? Do you see opportunities at every bend, or are you a sceptic when directions change.

In it's most basic form, your either an optimist or a pessimist. And dealing with an SCI definately won't change that dynamic. If anything, you wear it on your sleeve for all to see.