[megatrig]

Just a thought!

Just read in a few posts "my xxx is more like a para than a tetra, etc"

Well................ I'm a complete C5/6 Tetra! Drive a Porsche 911. Have a light weight chair I fling in and out of it. I'm completely independant. Etc, Etc, Etc.

So where is this big distinction?

I know a fair few low break Paras I ummmmm .... well to put it bluntly put to shame!

[Unbreakable]

Quote

Just a thought!

Just read in a few posts "my xxx is more like a para than a tetra, etc"

Well................ I'm a complete C5/6 Tetra! Drive a Porsche 911. Have a light weight chair I fling in and out of it. I'm completely independant. Etc, Etc, Etc.

So where is this big distinction?

I know a fair few low break Paras I ummmmm .... well to put it bluntly put to shame!

I think this is the essence of what I was trying to capture in the "assisted suicide" post. I was taught in rehab and I firmly believe that as SCI patients (and as humans, really) we are all different. However, when talking about the main differences between us in regards to our injuries, I believe that incomplete vs. complete is a better gauge of ability than para vs. quad.

Of course, there are also quirks unique to each person. You say you can drive being a quad, whereas I, even though I am a para cannot drive. Most paras at my injury level CAN drive with hand controls, but my seizures have meant that my driver's license has been revoked by the state. Like I said, each person and injury is unique.

[Trinity]

Unbreakable, on Oct 31 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

I believe that incomplete vs. complete is a better gauge of ability than para vs. quad.

I think complete vs incomplete is a very unreliable way to gauge ability. Incomplete can mean anything from having some sensation to being able to walk.

I don't think comparisons are helpful. Everyone knows that no 2 injuries are the same, and 2 people, with the same level may have very different abilities.

[qbounce]

The MORE you read, the more you realize not all injuries are pigeon holed at the break level. I'm not convinced that incomplete vs. complete even has ANYTHING to do with it, either. Incomplete just means you have more feeling below the injury level, and possibly . . . just possibly some movement too, but not always. As a side note, more feeling also includes PAIN, something I'm thankful not to have encountered.

Boasting about your accomplishments to friends and family makes you a hero, but posting on a parelyzed site like this and comparing yourself to others just comes across as maybe a little offputting and misinformed. . . . ummmm, ya think?

In a nutshell, you can't necessarily make a blanket statement about who can/ can't do what without knowing the FULL extent of their injury.

[Unbreakable]

Quote

I think complete vs incomplete is a very unreliable way to gauge ability. Incomplete can mean anything from having some sensation to being able to walk.

I disagree with the first part of your statement, but agree with the bit about incompleteness varying widely.

Quote

I don't think comparisons are helpful. Everyone knows that no 2 injuries are the same, and 2 people, with the same level may have very different abilities.

I agree with this, didn't I just say the same thing? However, comparisons and how we relate to our fellow humans and more importantly, humans that are similar to us, things like that are human nature.

Quote

Like I said, each person and injury is unique.

This post has been edited by Unbreakable: 31 October 2008 - 04:07 PM

[Avocado Baby]

qbounce, on Oct 31 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

As a side note, more feeling also includes PAIN, something I'm thankful not to have encountered.

Boasting about your accomplishments to friends and family makes you a hero, but posting on a parelyzed site like this and comparing yourself to others just comes across as maybe a little offputting and misinformed. . . . ummmm, ya think?

I compltely agree with both! I consider myself very lucky to not have any sensation below my lesion as it means I don't have pain there either!

I really don't think it's fair to compare yourself to others based on your injury level because, like others have said, you don't know other problems they have that stop them from being able to drive etc.

[ems]

Hm I know this is a rude way of saying it, but I'm blunt...I think that a persons weight has alot of bearing on thier ability, para or tetra. I'm very light, I can *almost* effortlessly pull myself off the floor onto my chair, yet my friend who is the same level, and basically the same as my function and sensory wise, we have even drawn on each other our sensory line and they are virtualy identical). SHe has never been able pull herself from the floor on to her chair, she has always had to find a step etc, or get someone to pull her trousers. One difference between us is 3.5 stone, and the other is she doesn't care that she cant get from the floor to her chair, even with trying to learn different techniques, and the next is that I'm 11 yrs post and she is 5.

I'm not dissing her, but we are very different in our views in asking for help , and the amount of things we both think we can do. She always has an adapted kitchen and bathroom, I dont. Though she has stayed round plenty of times, and it has not hindered her. She will always get someone to fill her petrol up for her, I dont.

So personally I think, its a lot to do with your*** way of thinking, and a bit to do with your weight, and another bit to do with your level.



***DISCLAIMER: These are my thoughts, my own opinions, totally unrelated to anyone here as I dont know anyone personally here. But I do see a lot of SCI's thorugh the wheelchair training I do with backup, and see the * I cant*, and * I can* patients frequently.

This post has been edited by ems: 31 October 2008 - 05:47 PM

[topperf]

Not two people are the same and sometimes people are more broke above the injury site than below.

But I must admit, being a professional musician, I would have prefered a injury below c7.

This post has been edited by topperf: 01 November 2008 - 01:50 PM

[nomis]

Competitively comparing injuries with abilities is, I suspect, an inevitable amusement that usually manages to offend someone rather quickly. I can't resist the occasional taking mental note of what another SCI manages and matching it to my own performance. But it's mostly a silly game of misunderstanding, no understanding and irrelevance.

As topperf rightly says, some people are more broke above their injury site. Attitude is the most significant factor.

If you're comparing how far you can throw a ball then physical limitations count. But it takes more than physical ability to be able to say at the end of the day, That was a satisfying day.

Most of the posts I make here have no relevance to injury level so I'm often oblivious to it which I regard as a mark of respect (if I ever stopped to notice it).

This post has been edited by nomis: 31 October 2008 - 11:33 PM

[russ1]

Personally I think it's just to do with whether you have full hand function or don't. Although I'm pretty much independant I'm fairly close to being a Tetra and I've always been extremely thankful that I have full hand function. This is IMHO the main difference between between being able to be fully independant (ignoring other limitations) and not being able to be. There are clearly exceptions and personally I am in awe of those tetras/quads who manage to be independant without full use of their hands, I'm not sure I could be so driven to be so.

As for complete/incomplete I know I'm grateful to be complete having seen the issues that incompleteness can cause especially if it's only a low degree of incompletness. I have quite a number of SCI friends and most of those with a small degree of incompleteness which usually involves sensation would much rather be complete. In fact I had just this conversation with a T12 incomplete friend last week. She has about 50% sensation and very poor control of one leg which is more of a hindrance than a help. She is very definate that being complete would be an advantage to her.

However if we go to handcycling as a high complete injury with limited lung function I am at a serious disadvantege to an incomplete tetra who might have full lung funtion and heart rate control. Would I swap places with him and take on his neuro issus and lack of full hand function - no way.

At the end of the day we are all different, weight and psyological approach have to be factored in (and the limitations we impose upon ourselves in our heads are huge) but as a general rule of thumb the tetra / para divide is as valid as it's ever been. And it's always fun to wind up low paras by telling them they've only really got flesh wounds :-) Was one of everone's favorite games in rehab!

[topperf]

Quote

Personally I think it's just to do with whether you have full hand function or don't. Although I'm pretty much independant I'm fairly close to being a Tetra and I've always been extremely thankful that I have full hand function. This is IMHO the main difference between between being able to be fully independant (ignoring other limitations) and not being able to be. There are clearly exceptions and personally I am in awe of those tetras/quads who manage to be independant without full use of their hands, I'm not sure I could be so driven to be so.

My point exactly. Thank you.

This post has been edited by topperf: 01 November 2008 - 01:52 PM

[Hapahowlee]

That is a good point. I've mentioned many times that Mr. Hapa is often mistaken for a para b/c he uses his hands and you can't really tell his hands are really affected even though he is truly a quad (C5,6,7 Incomp).

I used to take care of a guy who was a C5 incomp. and he could barely use his hands at all. He needed all the special gadgets to help him type, write, eat, etc. He relied on tenodesis with his right hand to pick up things that were lightweight. His left hand was stuck in an L position and no matter how much I tried while stretching out his hands, there was no moving it. It happened from extra nerve damage about a year or so after his accident.

So with Mr. Hapa being incomplete with most hand function, there is no comparison to others with the same injury who are also incomplete. I really don't believe complete vs incomplete is a good gauge.

This post has been edited by Hapahowlee: 04 November 2008 - 11:09 PM

[cosmosmallpiece]

megatrig, on Oct 31 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

Just a thought!

Just read in a few posts "my xxx is more like a para than a tetra, etc"

Well................ I'm a complete C5/6 Tetra! Drive a Porsche 911. Have a light weight chair I fling in and out of it. I'm completely independant. Etc, Etc, Etc.

So where is this big distinction?

I know a fair few low break Paras I ummmmm .... well to put it bluntly put to shame!

How long have you been confined to a wheelchair.

[jane]

I agree re handfunction - i have full function in my right hand, but very limited in my left - pretty much the same for the rest of the body as well. But even though my right side works - i don't feel which is difficult at times - i have no end of burns

Everyone is different . Being incomplete means i can walk short distnaces, but the pain - but i would rather have the pain than not be able to walk anywhere. That is just my opinion.

Jane

[megatrig]

cosmosmallpiece, on Nov 2 2008, 08:57 AM, said:

megatrig, on Oct 31 2008, 03:17 PM, said:

Just a thought!

Just read in a few posts "my xxx is more like a para than a tetra, etc"

Well................ I'm a complete C5/6 Tetra! Drive a Porsche 911. Have a light weight chair I fling in and out of it. I'm completely independant. Etc, Etc, Etc.

So where is this big distinction?

I know a fair few low break Paras I ummmmm .... well to put it bluntly put to shame!

How long have you been confined to a wheelchair.

20 years now! blimy!!!!

buyt I was up and driving after 6 months!

Also I played Wheelchair rugby which lifted my physical strength an enormous amount!

[dexter]

megatrig, on Oct 31 2008, 08:17 AM, said:

Just a thought!

Just read in a few posts "my xxx is more like a para than a tetra, etc"

Well................ I'm a complete C5/6 Tetra! Drive a Porsche 911. Have a light weight chair I fling in and out of it. I'm completely independant. Etc, Etc, Etc.

One question. How do you drive a car as a C-5? Are you able to steer the wheel with a nob and it? Did you ever use the ssip and puff system at the beginning?

I'd love to know.

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by dexter: 07 November 2008 - 09:08 PM

[Texaswheelz]

ems, on Oct 31 2008, 12:46 PM, said:

Hm I know this is a rude way of saying it, but I'm blunt...I think that a persons weight has alot of bearing on thier ability, para or tetra. I'm very light, I can *almost* effortlessly pull myself off the floor onto my chair, yet my friend who is the same level, and basically the same as my function and sensory wise, we have even drawn on each other our sensory line and they are virtualy identical). SHe has never been able pull herself from the floor on to her chair, she has always had to find a step etc, or get someone to pull her trousers. One difference between us is 3.5 stone, and the other is she doesn't care that she cant get from the floor to her chair, even with trying to learn different techniques, and the next is that I'm 11 yrs post and she is 5.

I'm not dissing her, but we are very different in our views in asking for help , and the amount of things we both think we can do. She always has an adapted kitchen and bathroom, I dont. Though she has stayed round plenty of times, and it has not hindered her. She will always get someone to fill her petrol up for her, I dont.

So personally I think, its a lot to do with your*** way of thinking, and a bit to do with your weight, and another bit to do with your level.



***DISCLAIMER: These are my thoughts, my own opinions, totally unrelated to anyone here as I dont know anyone personally here. But I do see a lot of SCI's thorugh the wheelchair training I do with backup, and see the * I cant*, and * I can* patients frequently.

Some of that is true and I think it goes with the attitude that others also spoke of, but it could also be due to difference in body size also. Weight isn't the only factor, length of torso compared to length of ones arms would make a huge difference when for example your transferring from the floor to your chair. But yes I think weight is huge, I have always got around pretty easy, but it was much harder when i gained 50 lbs and now that i've lost some I can tell that things are much easier then they were a year or two ago.

[eleanorigby]

I agree with nomis 100% here. When comparing, someone always ends up feeling misunderstood and defensive (usually me!). I'm an incomplete c6/7 and I've worked extremely hard to get to where I am today. I can drive, but require a ramp van; that doesn't mean that I haven't worked hard enough or don't have a good attitude, just like if a para had those same arrangements. Those are just the cards I was dealt. I still try to learn how to transfer in and out of cars by myself and lots of other stuff (like boardless transfers), but I'm not going to base my happiness on what I can or can't do compared to others with my injury. Spinal cord injuries affect everyone differently and I don't think we should be critical of each other's abilities. I'm super proud of myself, I've gone further than anyone imagined when I was first hurt.

I also agree with Texas about torso length ect. I'm very tall and it makes transfering much more difficult in my opinion. I love having long arms, it's super helpful, but when I have to lift 6 feet of body from the floor into my chair (including two very long, useless legs that decide to flop in all the wrong directions at that point), it gets a little unwieldy, especially since I can't grip with my right hand. It's a lot easier for skinny short people that can just toss themselves around, but at the same time, the length of my arms is really helpful in pushing and reaching. I can reach most top shelves sitting down! So there's good and bad in all situations. I just try to always look for the good. Like with being incomplete, I feel pain, but at the same time I FEEL. I can feel things below my waist which is important to me.

[dolly]

Hey I definately think its down to the person and their strength of character, if you want to achieve something however long it takes you will. I have also found people who play sports become alot physically stronger, para or tetra

[E-DOG]

I am a para, T4/5 incomplete and I can drive a Formula 1 race car, completely rebuild a mack truck desiel engine (in less than 2 hours) have sex with 3 count 'em 3 playboy playmates (satisfying them all) AND run a thriving business (mobile stemcell therapy and Gobi desert slug sales)

You might ask yerself, quietly, while lying in bed stairing up at the ceiling, "How the hell does the boy do it?)

Medicenal Marijuana and a vivid imagination. That's all it takes. Like the bumpersticker says, I lost 40 pounds in only 10 minutes, ask me how!

To compare injuries, complete, incomplete, or in between is ultimately ludicrous. What we can do is in our head, not our hands and feet.

E-dog

[edlee]

Sorry Dolly,,, but that's a load of crap!!!! How bad do you think Chriss Reeve wanted it, and how hard do you think he worked at it.

It's F@@KING insulting to say that kind of rubbish. I'm willing to bet you anything you like that I've worked harder than you,,, tried harder than you and wanted it more than you,,,,

and I'm still in this F@@KING chair....

I can accept my situation,,, what I can't stomach is your attitude.

Run any races,,, climbed a tree lately???? NO???? Didn't want it bad enough,huh????

ed