[Apparelyzed]

Woman was banned from every M&S store in the country - because she is disabled

A disabled woman was barred from Marks & Spencer after getting stuck in the toilets at her local store.

Susan Curran, who suffers from cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair, says she was been made to feel like a criminal.

Her troubles began when she had to ring an emergency cord while in the toilet, after having trouble pulling her trousers up.

A female M&S staff member came in and helped her, and Mrs Curran thought no more about it.

But the next time she came into the shop in Stockport, Greater Manchester, the manageress handed her a 'trespass order' telling her she was banned from every branch in the country.

The 58-year-old was told that as staff were not trained to help her, she represented a danger to their health and safety.

The order stated: 'Your right as a member of the public to enter into any of our premises is now withdrawn.

'You are not permitted to enter into any of our stores again. If you choose to ignore this notice you will be asked to leave.'

Mrs Curran broke down in tears after reading the letter.

'I was simply in need of some help and compassion for reasons which weren't my fault, yet I was made to feel like a criminal,' she said.

Now, however, the retailer has backed down. Yesterday, a spokesman at Marks & Spencer head office said: 'The trespass order was issued in error. We are sorry and it was never out intention for Mrs Curran to feel she was not welcome in our store.

'We have asked that wherever possible she is accompanied by someone who would be better equipped to help her if she feels unwell.'

But Mrs Curran said: 'The problem is I haven't really got anyone to take me.'

Last night, a spokesman for Scope, the charity which helps people with cerebral palsy, said: 'M&S is renowned for its high-quality, professional customer service so we are surprised by this incident.'

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...--disabled.html

[topperf]

Quote

"The trespass order was issued in error. We are sorry and it was never out intention for Mrs Curran to feel she was not welcome in our store"

Sometimes you wonder why some people stack bs upon bs.

[edlee]

My best guess would be that it was a local decision to get the order issued.

A buisness with this many outlets must surely have upper management capable of seeing the publicity nightmare this could bring on,,,,,,,,wouldn't they?????

I was at a GetGo gas station yesterday. I stopped to pick up a few snacks and soft drinks for the day of fishing I was embarked on.

Having never used this, particular store, I was happy to see a handicapped spot in the crowded lot that would allow me to use my ramp,( often they aren't big enough).

After getting out I found the ramp to the sidewalk blocked by a pallet of roadsalt,,,,so I decided to roll to the other end, but found a similar pallet there, too.

This time I was able to hop the lower curb, a bit further up the ramp.....Feeling proud of myself, I began to thread my way past the stacks of,,,, you guessed it,,,, more roadsalt .

It wasn't until I had almost reached the door that I noticed the boxes of windshield washing fluid placed on the sidewalk,,,, completely blocking it,,,,,, and a concrete trash recepticle placed just beyond that.

I was upset,,, as you might imagine,,, not to mention,, late for my meeting with the guy that owns the boat,,,, but had no way of telling anyone inside, my feelings on the matter,,,,,,,can't get in,,, can't scream at anyone!!!!

I don't suppose it would have mattered anyway since it would have been the store manager who decided to have things placed where they were placed.

The law demands it,,,, the architect designs it,,, the contractor builds it,,,, and the corporation pays for it,,,,,,,, then some assistant manager type screws the pooch,,,,,If they dump him,, will his replacement be any better????

I left, feeling a bit disappointed in not being able to rant, and finally met my friend,,,,,the fish didn't cooperate, but a beautiful, seventy degree (F not C) day, on the water at this time of year,,, with friends,,,,,STILL A GOOD DAY!!!!!!

Sorry about highjacking the thread.
ed

[ems]

OMG.

[dancin' johnny]

If I had got a letter like that I would've cried and then gone on the rampage, seeking out M+S's everywhere and leaving dirty protests. Well maybe.

What an outrageous way to be treated. I've gone right off their lasagne now.

[Nichole]

OMG! How horrible! I feel so bad for her, i cant even imagine what that felt like getting that notice! Its awful that they are just trying to cover it up and call it a mistake...my gosh. I would raise hell over this if i was her....They would be quite sorry by the time i got done with them taking their butts to court. Thats discrimination first and foremost, and i'm sure it cost her large amounts of emotional pain & suffering! I'd have everyone out to get them that i could possibly think of!

[eleanorigby]

It is discrimination, but I that kind of thing is becoming more and more common. Unfortunately, because of lawsuits, it is the general rule that employees cannot move disabled people around. So if a disabled person fell out of there chair at some department store, the employees are not supposed to help them up because if the person was injured because an untrained employee was helping them on business premises, then they could be sued.

I went ot go get some medical tests done and the equipment wasn't accessible (the tables were too hgh for me to transfer onto) and they told me that they could not help me transfer. So I had to reschedule my appointment, come back with my mother and then all of these strong, capable people stood by and watched as my mom (who has a bad back due to a slipped disc!) struggled with these horrible transfers. I've encountered this in a couple places.

It's a shame that the fear of lawsuits is more powerful than basic human decency.

[LuckyinKentucky]

It's a shame that the fear of lawsuits is more powerful than basic human decency.

I agree it's a shame... but I feel it is almost as much of a shame that personal greed has created so many sue happy people that corporations have to asses them as such a serious threat. Serious enough to force the implementation of these kinds of policies. (not the ban thing but the not allowed to assist ones)

In this case the mid level manager who made the bad choice to issue the ban should be reprimanded or possibly fired, one must keep in mind that the manager also could have been made to feel quite uncomfortable during the inspiring event, we often live with these hardships as facts of life but many if not most people out there cant comprehend these kind of problems, much less feel comfortable dealing with them.

And as for the woman with CP a personal apology should be made along with a written one... sharing the envelope with the apology should be a overly generous gift card and a letter noting that staff would not be permitted to physically help in this type of situation in the future due to lack of training.

anyone agree/disagree?...

This post has been edited by LuckyinKentucky: 09 November 2008 - 11:31 AM

[Apparelyzed]

With such a large percentage of customers being of the older generation who shop in M&S, and many of them being disabled, you would of thought that by now M&S would have a disability liason officer in their stores.

M&S are generally very good with customer service, so it's suprising that they do not have a policy for such matters, or even just a couple of staff who can be trained up to handle such situations if they should occur.

Let's face it, the retail sector needs all the customers it can get in the current financial climate, and money is money, regardless of which customer it comes from.

Simon.

[Hapahowlee]

Good thread. Makes me think of times Mr. Hapa had been in a crunch due to the minimal amount of ADA changes a particular establishment is willing to do.

Good idea Simon to have maybe a couple of staff trained to handle such situations. I went back to the original article and wondered what the policy is when someone has to pull the emergency cord. Should the staff member have called paramedics instead of helping her? It's really a touchy subject b/c it's embarrassing enough to be in such a situation and fortunately there was female staff to help the woman in need, but what happens when there is no one else but the opposite sex?

I've gotten to the point where if Mr. Hapa goes into the men's room and yells out to me that he needs help, I just bust on in. It's usually a case where the commode is too low to the ground or there is no possible way for him to get his chair into the stall w/o having his chair picked up and moved at a strange angle. I just stay in until he takes care of business. When other men do come in, I apologize and tell them what I'm doing in there and ask them to mention something to management. Some men just go ahead and do what they came in to do and leave. If it doesn't bother them, it doesn't bother me. We for sure make it a point to talk to management before we continue shopping. There has been a case or two where management didn't seem to care and in those cases, we've left our full carts with the manager and inform them, we will never be back. In most cases, we've been referred to the home offices and were given verbal apologies as well as written with discounts for our next trip. It helps to be kind about it and also give suggestions. I believe most responsible companies are relieved no one was hurt.

There has to be a legal way for well trained staff to help people in need and at the same time releasing the establishment of responsibility so no suits would be possible.

[eleanorigby]

Hapahowlee, on Nov 9 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

Good thread. Makes me think of times Mr. Hapa had been in a crunch due to the minimal amount of ADA changes a particular establishment is willing to do.

Good idea Simon to have maybe a couple of staff trained to handle such situations. I went back to the original article and wondered what the policy is when someone has to pull the emergency cord. Should the staff member have called paramedics instead of helping her? It's really a touchy subject b/c it's embarrassing enough to be in such a situation and fortunately there was female staff to help the woman in need, but what happens when there is no one else but the opposite sex?

I've gotten to the point where if Mr. Hapa goes into the men's room and yells out to me that he needs help, I just bust on in. It's usually a case where the commode is too low to the ground or there is no possible way for him to get his chair into the stall w/o having his chair picked up and moved at a strange angle. I just stay in until he takes care of business. When other men do come in, I apologize and tell them what I'm doing in there and ask them to mention something to management. Some men just go ahead and do what they came in to do and leave. If it doesn't bother them, it doesn't bother me. We for sure make it a point to talk to management before we continue shopping. There has been a case or two where management didn't seem to care and in those cases, we've left our full carts with the manager and inform them, we will never be back. In most cases, we've been referred to the home offices and were given verbal apologies as well as written with discounts for our next trip. It helps to be kind about it and also give suggestions. I believe most responsible companies are relieved no one was hurt.

There has to be a legal way for well trained staff to help people in need and at the same time releasing the establishment of responsibility so no suits would be possible.

Lol, Hapa you should become a professional advocate. You seem to have a way with people that inspires them to get their asses moving in the right direction when it comes to accommodations.

I agree that if a store is responsible enough to put in a emergency cord in the bathroom, they should have a trained staff member to help. Makes me wonder what they thought the cord would be used for if they banned that woman for basically using it for what it was meant for. They probably just stuck it in because it's required (is it? not sure), and didn't really think about it's function.

[edlee]

Unfortunately,, no matter how much training these staff members are put through, there will still be accidents,,,, not to mention unscrupulous people who will claim damages not really incurred.

AND,, as always,,,, lawyers ready and waiting to do battle in court.

Is it any less reasonable to expect someone to bring along any help that MIGHT be needed than to expect a buisness to have that help available along with the additional insurance needed,,,,just in case???

In a perfect world, niether of these options would be necessary,,,, but that's not where we live.

On another note,,, does the UK have any laws or regulations on the books similar to our Americans with Disabilities Act? Up until they enacted that there was little we could do to force accessability.. Now we have, at least, a

small amount of leverage.

ed

[MsLucretia]

i have been to too many stores or restaurants here (oregon usa) where the hallway to bathroom was crowded w merchandise or foodstuffs so the bathrom was off limits or convenience stores which are notorious for narrow aisles so a wheelchair is clearly unwelcome. i have been yellled at at more than one small store to get out after knocking some chips off a shelf or somesuch due to overcrowded aisles. and if i return told as i come in door to get out. two specific places in forest grove, and two here in hillsboro. one so crowded up cant get to counter, and they have cheapest cigs in town. grrrrrr. the place i now go to most, the employees move things out of the way so wheelies can getb to coffee/sodapop/snack bar area or drink cooler and always very pleasant. they get a lot of business from my independent living building even tho the two others are closer.

[wheels21]

just to add to this i have recently returned to work after 11 months on sick leave to m & s and in my store they have been fantastic and very supportive. this must have been done at store level and there would now hell to pay somewhere in that store

[megatrig]

The sad thing is that there seem to be a lot of "stores" "companies" etc trying and succeeding to by "disabled" friendly .. BUT when it comes to the crunch it all goes horribly wrong!

Obvious solution is to have a simulated "fire alarm" but with a disabled situation to see how the store copes.

As someone who does access ordits and mystery customer work ... this does sort out how well a place can and does or doesn't cope!

[Murray]

Here's a good one: A buddy of mine is a world-class hand-cranker from Lodi, CA. He was with some friends at bar recently, had to use the john, but some kegs were stacked in the hallway. He asked the bartender if she'd move them for him. Her response - "Git yer lazy ass outta that chair and drag yourself down there." He wasn't sure he'd heard right, so he asked again. Same response. Needless to say, that outfit "bit the big one".

I'm dense when it comes to Great Britain's legislation on things like this. We colonists are so far behind in some ways, I'd have thought the S&M outfit would be staring at some stiff litigation.

Lynn

[Zwisedude]

All I can even think to say is "WOW"!

What is it you Brits would say?... "Now that takes a cheeky bastard", to do something like that to that poor woman.

My heart breaks for her... that is just cold.

I hope she is doing ok now.

[Nickleblue]

Zwisedude, on Nov 18 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

All I can even think to say is "WOW"!

What is it you Brits would say?... "Now that takes a cheeky bastard", to do something like that to that poor woman.

My heart breaks for her... that is just cold.

I hope she is doing ok now.

Yeah thats pretty much what us brits would say :-) However id also add id have the poor lass on the front page of every paper i could manage and at a minimum on a page on the web (with her persmission naturally) id of taken names of every member of staff i came accross that was involved and cited them as personally responsible. THEN id be trying to claim for intentional infliction of emotional distress - with that type of publicity they "should" pay up.
Gary
I hate stuff like this - i know someone going through simular but not on that large a scale right now unfortunately she is reluctant to let me help as she knows im like a dog with a postman-i wont let go.

This post has been edited by garysmiling: 06 December 2008 - 11:23 AM

[AndrewB]

Yeah... id be owner of a shiny new mark and spencers store.