[aggzy]

hi 3

i heard on the news today 3 pieces of scum broke into a disabled mans house and smashed him and his carers with a piece of wood and they stole the carers car

how weak and gutless

Ag's

This post has been edited by aggzy: 10 November 2008 - 11:51 PM

[Unbreakable]

It's sad that Australia recently tightened up its firearms laws such that law-abiding people have a very difficult time of arming and defending themselves. There have always been evil people in the world, there always will be. One must be ready at all times to protect yourself and your loved ones.

And I'm sure that this wasn't random. I'm guessing that he was chosen because he was disabled and seen as an "easy" target.

[dancin' johnny]

are you saying, "tool up because we are all going to get attacked" UB?

[nomis]

Aussie gun laws aren't so tight that the average person can't have a gun. But maybe there are other ways of dealing with a situation and not everyone is hell bent on wanting to kill.

[LuckyinKentucky]

I don't think wanting to kill has anything to do with it, the perception that guns are bad and are only for no good is shared by many who live in gunless societies. Rather it's about not wanting to be messed with or even more rather not accepting it if someone tries. This tends to discourage those who would try. I live alone in the middle of nowhere and have guns all over my house. not many things say "I'm not a target to be messed with" like a 12 gauge propped in the corner.

[Unbreakable]

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are you saying, "tool up because we are all going to get attacked" UB?

I'm saying, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Order a pizza and call the cops. See which one shows up first.

And realistically, as disabled persons, we are more likely to be the victims of a violent attack because criminals see us as easy targets. Predators prey on the weak. You need to be ready to bite back.

http://video.google....232574024579484

This post has been edited by Unbreakable: 11 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

[dancin' johnny]

How do you know that criminals see us as easy targets?

Why spread fear?

I can see a scenario at your house where the Pizza boy ends up getting shot!


I'm hoping your obsession with guns is a joke.

[Unbreakable]

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How do you know that criminals see us as easy targets?

All one has to do is open up the newspaper or look online to read about disabled people being victimized daily. After all, such an episode kicked off this thread.

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Why spread fear?

There is a difference between randomly spreading fear and being prepared for ever eventuallity in life. I have a fire extinguisher in case of fire. I have a first aid kit. And I have guns. It is the natural order of things.

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I can see a scenario at your house where the Pizza boy ends up getting shot!

Spoken like someone who TRULY lives in fear and has never lived around or handled firearms.

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I'm hoping your obsession with guns is a joke.

And I'm hoping your wish to remain defenseless at the mercy of thugs such as the ones aggzy described is a joke. But I don't think it is. You take your chances with them. I'll fight it out, thanks.

[dancin' johnny]

Thanks

[nomis]

As a hangover from it's wild pioneering days and the fact that someone slipped permission into a founding document, the US has a gun culture.

Many other Western countries like NZ, UK, Aust also have easy access to guns but with some constraint with licensing. We have our share of sensible and idiotic people possessing guns but nowhere near as fantatically as in US. We aren't really a gun culture.

So we approach the subject differently.

Here, you're less likely to be killed or maimed accidentally or deliberately by a gun and a criminal is less likely (though not definite) to carry a gun.

I'm glad I live where I live but maybe if I lived in the US I'd have a different attitude. Guns have made Americans so paranoid there'd be chaos and shooting if they tried to take them away. If (when) society ever breaks down there's going to be one bloody war inside America (we're going to have a punch-up, instead).

[JT80]

killing other members of society is currently illegal in the UK.

there are some things that people do, where i think that an end to their life would be what they deserve. however, a situation where anybody can buy firearms surely means that they can end up in the 'wrong' hands where they are not used in self defence. i.e - classmates deciding that while high they might shoot a few people. you can't have it both ways realistically.


is anyone else a bit annoyed that as humans we've been condemned to an early death and toil because some people called adam and eve, who i don't even know, ate an apple. bit harsh.

[edlee]

Nomis,,,,, I'm afraid,, in the dustup you mention,, even in NZ, you'll find yourself under armed. The winners will be the guys with the firepower.

The guns I own were bought for and are used for hunting or recreational shooting,,,targets, clays, tin cans. I don't have a carry permit and don't expect to apply for one. Well,, here's the big"""BUT""" you've been

expecting,,,I do keep a shotgun out of the case,,, tho not in plain view,,, and two shells hidden nearby. I lock my doors,, as any prudent person should, regardless of where you live,,, and I fervently hope to never have the

need to use it against another person. I am, however, fully prepared to do so if I feel my family or friends are in danger. If this makes me a cowboy,, then so be it.



With regard to our second ammendment rights, regarding guns,,,, they aren't there to let us protect ourselves from indians or cattle rustlers,,,,they are there to let us protect ourselves from the government,,, as all first ten

ammendments are. It is why they are known as our Bill of Rights.

Is it all that "paranoid"???? Even in the seventeen hundreds, it was well known that the first step in forcing oppression on a group was to remove that groups means of resisting oppression. It is the reason for many of the

ammendments to our constitution,,, not just the second one. The first one,,,assuring us of the rights of free speech and a free press,, is equally important,,, who do you suppose that one is meant to protect us from???

You are right on one count tho,,,, if or when they come to take mine,,,,,there will be a,,,,, problem!!!!
ed

[Sammie]

I would suggest you live and be stronger by not living in fear. There are all kinds of creeps out there everywhere but you can be the better person by being responsible, live your own life and have a positive focus. Enjoy life for what you can get from it, not fear it.

[Unbreakable]

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I would suggest you live and be stronger by not living in fear. There are all kinds of creeps out there everywhere but you can be the better person by being responsible, live your own life and have a positive focus. Enjoy life for what you can get from it, not fear it.

Tell that to the guy as he's beating you senseless with a piece of wood or slashing you with a knife now that he has broken into your house.

As for being responsible? I'd say that being ready to protect my wife and son IS being responsible.

And I think I speak for all gun owners here when I say that we don't live in fear. After all, if one is allergic to bees, they carry an Epipen with them in case they are stung, but it does not mean they forever live in fear of bees. I would bet that most of us here have a fire extinguisher, are you living in fear your house is going to burn down? It's all about having the tools to be prepared for every eventuallity.

[nomis]

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Nomis,,,,, I'm afraid,, in the dustup you mention,, even in NZ, you'll find yourself under armed.

We're particularly sensitive down here in NZ with anything that is under arm, particularly if it involves cricket.

OK, so you're not paranoid in USA. But you did say you have a shotgun and ammo handy just in case. Here, that would be considered over the top and a bit worrying - you're more likely to be considered a danger to society.

Life isn't as safe (if I believe the media and tv dramas) as a few years back - many people now lock their doors at night and don't leave keys in the car's ignition. We're gradually being wound up to be more fearful of fear but I'd say the US society has a good 10-20 years on us.

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is anyone else a bit annoyed that as humans we've been condemned to an early death and toil because some people called adam and eve, who i don't even know, ate an apple.

JT80, I'm claiming my own payback by eating as many apple pies as I can before my time is up.

This post has been edited by nomis: 12 November 2008 - 11:02 PM

[redjohn]

I am with the Americans on this one there are so many creeps and psychos out there who are essentially parasites.Defacto they target the vunerable and i would put people who are paralysed into that catorgory,(unless i can grab hold of them then, they would be in trouble).So i say do the right thing and exterminate those who target the vunerable and pay no attention to all the spineless folk who would rather kiss, cuddle, and rehabilitate the filth.Happydays,John.

[Unbreakable]

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I am with the Americans on this one there are so many creeps and psychos out there who are essentially parasites.Defacto they target the vunerable and i would put people who are paralysed into that catorgory,(unless i can grab hold of them then, they would be in trouble).So i say do the right thing and exterminate those who target the vunerable and pay no attention to all the spineless folk who would rather kiss, cuddle, and rehabilitate the filth.Happydays,John.

Thank you, Sir. I applaud your fighting spirit. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[nomis]

redjohn, on Nov 13 2008, 12:05 PM, said:

So i say do the right thing and exterminate those who target the vunerable and pay no attention to all the spineless folk who would rather kiss, cuddle, and rehabilitate the filth.Happydays,John.

OK. And maybe exterminate the cripples, low IQs, those who don't worship the great spaghetti monster and people with freckles.

[Unbreakable]

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OK. And maybe exterminate the cripples, low IQs, those who don't worship the great spaghetti monster and people with freckles.

Now you are just being argumentative and facetious. The persons you mention above do not infringe on the rights and liberties of others and do not disturb the social order. By "disturbing the social order", I am referring to things like what aggzy is talking about (abusing the disabled). Don't even pretend ignorance and try to say, "well if we get rid of those people, we'll just have to get rid of the paras and quads, too." Because that is false logic and I actually expected a better argument from you, nomis, and a higher level of reasoning.

[chefzapp]

OMG!

[wheeliebear75]

Unfortunately they do see us as targets. They just haven't seen enough wheelchair defense videos on YouTube. If your ramps aren't affixed to the ground or a part of the structure in some way.......kiss them goodbye because some stupid kid is using them for their BMXs or just some jerk. Hardly a comparison with assault BUT most "descent" people would never think to take something like a ramp.......but yet they disappear all the time; not quite as many descent people out there as we'd like. Best advice.....get a good alarm system that telephones out for help in the case of the phone lines being cut (we had one that sent out police if the phone lines were cut) and a dog! Gotta love man's best friend......they've been our companion for so many thousands of years because of their natural tenancies; loyalty to "the pack" and they don't generally like anyone else on their turf........give it up for Fido.

[edlee]

I am happy for you, Nomis,,,,, living in an area where violent crime is such a distant thing.

I,, myself,, lean toward percentages,,,,, There will be a certain percentage of any homogenous society that will have freckles,,,, blue eyes,,,, SCI,,,, and ,, yes,, even the propensity to do harm to others.

Whether you ,,, or any one person,, will ever come into contact with that last group is also a matter of percentages. Whether you feel the need to be prepared for such an eventuality is a matter of choice.

Some people buy insurance for floods,,, fire,,,, theft,,,,, well,, so have I. Mine is an Ithaca 12 gauge,,,,, and mine is to prevent a problem,, not to mop up afterward.

We. all, make our own decisions about what we need to do to feel comfortable in our lives. I grew up in a home that never had a firearm within it,,, but that was also a home where the doors were never locked and the keys were left in the cars. The world has changed a bit since then,,,, one adapts,,,, or not.
ed

[Unbreakable]

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Some people buy insurance for floods,,, fire,,,, theft,,,,, well,, so have I. Mine is an Ithaca 12 gauge,,,,, and mine is to prevent a problem,, not to mop up afterward.

Exactly. Police do not prevent crime. They show up after a crime has been commited to write reports, take statements, and either arrest the guilty or document the bodies of the victims depending on how the situation turned out. And since a cop is too heavy, bulky, and expensive to carry around with me and live in my house, I've chosen a gun for protection instead.

[edlee]

I knew, UB, that we would eventually agree on something. Wonder where Kwag stands on this issue...

Tools are tools,,,, a toilet plunger isn't something I enjoy using,, but sometimes it is the best tool for the job at hand. Nuff said???
ed

[buffie]

I would like to say that I also agree with Unbreakable. One of my biggest fears is living alone, because criminals do prey on the weak. Everyday here the news reports crime on the weak and disabled. Just the other day here a 90 year old women's home was broken into and she was raped and rob, but she kept a gun in the house. So although you may have a gun, there is the chance that you still might not be able to get to it. Personally though, if I ever move to my own place, I would like a gun, but to be realistic, I doubt I'd have the strength to pull the trigger.

[nomis]

edlee, on Nov 14 2008, 06:55 AM, said:

We all make our own decisions about what we need to do to feel comfortable in our lives.

Can't argue with that...and in a different environment I'd probably feel differently.

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unbreakable: ...that is false logic...

No, it's my logic. If you start singling out sections of society to eliminate there's going to be another bunch who want their pet-hate removed and the minority victimisation continues a la Hitler. What's wrong with the current judicial system which generally serves us pretty well?

Also, to an earlier remark that you are not scared - how about when you don't have your guns with you for the night?


BUT, I'm wondering if there are two kinds of fear running through this thread.

The one we generally acknowledge, that crime and the threat of violence is more prevalent now than a few years ago. Can another fear be more pointed at us as less potent SCI-people? Are some of us compensating for our physical loss?

At times I've felt particularly vulnerable as a wheelchair user, realising I have limited options in defence and escape. Am I able to restore my equality with a gun in my hand?

I used to own a rifle years ago for rabbit and possum hunting and I've thought of owning one since but decided against it. The chances of being bashed up or murdered are very low where I live and in most other parts of the world. I'd rather have a positive and peaceful attitude to life than the heavy responsibility and combat anxiety of owning a gun. I'll take my chances and back myself. If I come to a sticky end, you can say I told him so.

[curbyi]

Unbreakable, on Nov 10 2008, 11:59 PM, said:

It's sad that Australia recently tightened up its firearms laws such that law-abiding people have a very difficult time of arming and defending themselves. There have always been evil people in the world, there always will be. One must be ready at all times to protect yourself and your loved ones.

And I'm sure that this wasn't random. I'm guessing that he was chosen because he was disabled and seen as an "easy" target.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=O0B_UZNtEk4

[frustration]

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It's sad that Australia recently tightened up its firearms laws such that law-abiding people have a very difficult time of arming and defending themselves.

Oh boy I would much rather live here. A gun (or knife or whatever) is only useful to defend yourself when YOU are the one holding it.

[E-DOG]

edlee, on Nov 13 2008, 10:09 PM, said:

Wonder where Kwag stands on this issue...

ed

God protects those who have faith.
You know, like how priests protect choirboys.

I'm just funnin' Kwag, don't get pissed.
E

[fatdave]

I carry a consealed weapon, LEGALLY. If you understood my past you would understand. My father made many enemies, and they have tried to harm me to get to him. I was 16 the first time it happened. I got the crap beat out of me by 2 of his "friends" that he owed money too.

There are people out there that will prey on people. I used to drive a dock-high (large box truck, lorry,etc.) I would make deliveries to very bad neighborhoods (namely North St.louis and East St.Louis). I was given a cell phone and a CB radio and told to lock my doors. My boss pulled me aside and said "you are a target in these neighborhoods, you are young, white, and have something valuable. If you get robbed let them have the truck. If they start shooting, shoot back" He didn't know if i carried or not, but from that night on I did. He had grown up in those places, he wasn't being racist.

If a criminal sees 2 people on a street alone, and one is in a wheel chair do you think he will choose to rob an AB or a "cripple". I'll tell you that he will go after the person in the WC just because it is an easy target. Muggings and robbery are usually crimes of opportunity. \

But I will tell you this: If you have a gun, and you pull a gun be prepared to kill the person. If you wound them, they will probably try to sue you.

Can you live with the thought of taking that other person's life? when I was attending the classes for my Concealed Carry permit my instructor made this a clear point. 3 people walked out.

I wish we could live in a place that is safe, but we don't. we probably never will.